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OK fellow cruisers, let me warn you in advance. This is a long, complicated posting, but it’s well worth the attention of ANYONE who is even vaguely interested in the issue of Florida Anchoring Rights. Read on!
Back in April (2012), I was given permission to excerpt from an article contained in “Sandy’s St. Augustine Blog.” I waited a bit for more developments to come forth, as is now the case.
Greetings to all the ships at sea and all the ports of call.
The ordinances for the pilot program have been in force for over a month now.
(See complete ordinance at http://www.staugustinegovernment.com/the-city/featured-stories-archive/mooring3.cfm )
The first ticket was recently issued for violation of the ordinances. If you are a cruiser following the progress of the program, you need to know that our city is a perfect place for boaters of all kinds. Rest assured that the folks who live here on their boats are at the ready to defend our anchoring rights in their entirety. There is no need to avoid our town whether you anchor out, use a mooring or get a slip. Please refer to my separate blog regarding law enforcement and you will understand it all . . .
Ok, with all this in mind, let me get back to the point. Our local guy, Mike McDougal, also known as Wolfy, has been invited to leave or go to a mooring ball. Police man Jerry, aka famous Jerry city water cop, has issued him a ticket and Wolfy has retained an attorney. Famous Jerry was as professional as ever when he gave out the ticket. Wolf told me that he really had to try hard to get that ticket and as usual famous Jerry was considerate and polite. Jerry has always been extremely professional while carrying out his duties as city water cop.
Visit our site often (http://sandysta.wordpress.com/) for updates on how this will lay out. Let’s all hope for a peaceful and prosperous solution. Let’s all remember that boaters also have civic responsibilities to attend to. Just because you live on a boat does not mean you need not be a good citizen of the town in which you live. The city has a big birthday party coming up and she needs to look nice. If your boat looks crappy then clean it up. Don’t dump your raw sewage into my river or I will get you myself. If you are anchored 50 feet from a marine structure then you need to move because you are just being crazy. Any half decent mariner knows better than to anchor within 2 or 3 hundred feet of someone’s dock. Fifty feet from a dock is not enough. If you have a choice of which side of the river to anchor on , like we do in the New Colony of Vilano, then anchor on the marsh side where you don’t have to sit right in front of somebody’s dock. Don’t be stupid. I have my eye on you guys. Love you all, love our city too. Get ready for another great cruising season!!!!
Then, on 5/1/12, here comes notes from Captain Doreen and my buddy Captain Chuck Baier:
Cruising News:
Check out the very latest on the Pilot Program case in court now in St.Augustine: http://sandysta.wordpress.com/
I guess someone decided to challenge the city in court on the anchoring regulations. Who know what could come of it.
http://sandysta.wordpress.com/
Chuck
So, I went to Sandy’s site, and discovered the following, very interesting article!!!!
UPDATE: DAY IN COURT FOR ST AUGUSTINE PILOT PROGRAM
Posted on April 30, 2012 by mayor sandy
Lord have mercy!!!! We didn’t lose yet. There was quite a show in the small court room today. Lots of lawyers and city big wigs gathered round. Lots of really big photos and aerial shots and witnesses and so on. And there sat Wolfy all by himself. We won’t need a lawyer till we reach federal court so Wolf took them on himself. He cited the constitutional articles, the navigational servitude clause and the preemptive clause authorizing federal control over “interstate waterways” ….what we know as the ICW. The city presented two precedents for consideration by the judge. Since it would take Wolfy some time to read these, Judge Tinlin continued the case until June 1, 2012 with no additional action to be taken by the city until Wolfy submits a written response to the case precedents and adjudication takes place. I took the liberty of spending four hours going over the precedents decisions and I have to say that for a while there I thought they really had us……….however, in the third reading I finally found out what was amiss. Turns out that both cases the city set forth had nothing to do with the federal navigable interstate waterways but the state coastal waterways. In my -not a lawyer- opinion, that is like apples and oranges. One case was regarding anchoring in the ocean offshore of Hawaii and the other was state coastal waterways of Santa Barbara California. Neither of these states even have a federal interstate waterway. Our city is dealing with the ICW…. a unique waterway under statutory control of the US Army Corp of Engineers. The preemptive clause for our river requires “national continuity” of regulations. So we will write a response and submit to Judge Tinlin asap. I am trying to make and post a copy of every legal document for public review. It’s not so easy for me to tend to secretarial duties as I myself am anchored …..FAR OUT. Stay tuned though, I will get everything copied and post it here. Let freedom ring.
Wow, that’s a lot to absorb. So, I wrote to my good friend and St. Augustine Port Commissioner, Captain Jay Bliss, and asked him if he could help the cruising community understand a bit more about what was going on here. I received the following reply:
Greetings Claiborne,
We ALL need help on this one. Sandy is a positive force hereabouts, and her rapidfire delivery on the phone leaves me as confused as her blog. I did not attend, knew nada of the the court appearance, thus can’t clarify anything. Todays Record (http://www.staugustine.com) covered the news also, but from my experience, is not to be counted upon. I hope to attend the next court appearance in June. What I know:
Michael MacDougall got a ticket for illegal anchoring on the San Sebastian river. The ordinance he violated is one of six ordinances enacted as part of the FFWCC ‘s Pilot Program. Should the ordinance be found in violation of constitutional rights, or of overstepping federal navigational servitudes, or violating public trust doctrines, then that portion of the ordinance will be struck down. Boaters will still have to abide by the remaining rules until/unless those are taken to court. The ordinance is http://www.staugustinegovernment.com/visitors/documents/Ord2011-10-2.pdf
The main thrust of Florida’s Pilot Program seems to be to generate a tidal current to wash boaters into established mooring fields. Municipal revenues are generated. The constitutional freedoms and rights that individuals enjoy within our United States seem to be diluted by proposed and existing Pilot Program ordinances.
City of St Augustine requires that no portion of your anchored boat be closer than 50 feet from the boundary (edge of, if one can draw a defining line of a meandering river) of the San Sebastian. Captain MacDougall’s boat apparently infringed on that boundary. Boaters and the general public can sit back and marvel at our sense of what’s important, what occupies our governments, and how our courts respond.
St Augustine marine businesses serve the boating community well. City-run moorings are a convenience and affordable. Ordinances that outlaw anchoring and attempt to create a municipal monopoly are unwarranted, unnecessary, and probably unconstitutional.
Jay Bliss
OK, here’s my take on all of this. It appears that a fellow boat owner, “Wolfie,” in St. Augustine has the wherewithal to take the city of St. Augustine into Federal court, and challenge the whole idea that a city, county or even the state of Florida can establish anchorage regulations on what are apparently considered Federal waters. Many of us have been hoping for years and years that someone who had the means would do this very thing. Now, we will all wait for the June, 2012 court date, and see what happens. The final results of this case could have the most profound impact on Florida Anchoring Rights since this issue reared its ugly head in the early 1990′s!
And, reaction from our fellow cruisers:
Florida’s proposed mooring fields and restrictions on anchoring.
Anchoring is an act of navigation, navigation is under the jurisdiction of Admiralty Courts. Admiralty Courts exist only at the federal level. It is not only that a plaintiff has immediate appeal to the admiralty, it does not make any sense to continue to fight these restrictions at the state level and incur all of the expense and waste of time that such a process requires.
Once again the boating public is responding to the state’s attempt at control of navigation on its waters (which by definition are navigable water of the United States) by playing their game when they have stacked their rules against the boating public. The state or municipality pass laws, issue tickets, and the plaintiffs respond by getting lawyers to fight them in state courts. In general the history of such law suits have been decided against the boaters and merely rule on the efficacy of the state legislated laws. If having gone through the lengthy and expensive litigations at the state level (remember that lawyers get paid by the hour and the longer it takes the better for them) the state court ruling is challenged at the federal level and the state merely drops the charges and there is nothing for the federal court to rule upon.
The laws of the United States are superior to state laws and state laws in conflict must yield. Likewise the Federal Court rulings are supreme. State courts are supposed to take these superior court decisions into account and comply accordingly. Unfortunately if federal rulings are never presented they are almost never considered by the state courts.
With the foregoing in mind consider the following rulings and laws which exist at the National Level, all of which are superior to any state legislation:
1.U. S. Constitution, Article III, Sec 2.1
“The judicial power shall extend to all cases in law and equity arising under this constitution, the laws of the United States, … (and) to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction …”
2.U.S. Supreme Court, Butler v. Boston Steamship Co. 130 US 557, 141 US 1, Detroit Trust Co. v. The Thomas Baslum 293 US 21, 42
“As the constitution extends the judicial power of the United States to ‘all admiralty and maritime jurisdiction,’ and as this jurisdiction is held to be exclusive, the power of legislation on the same subject must necessarily be in the national legislature and not in the state legislatures.”
3.U.S. Supreme Court, Knickerbocker Ice Co. v. Stewart 253 US 149, 164
“Congress cannot transfer its legislative power to the states, … by nature this in nondelegable.”
4.U.S. Supreme Court, State of Washington v. Dawson 264 U.S. 219
In responding to and overturning a lower court decision where a state was attempting to apply a local state law to all vessels which visit or navigate in the state the U.S. Supreme Court decreed: “This cause presents a situation where there was no attempt to prescribe general rules. On the contrary the manifest purpose was to permit any state to alter the maritime law, and thereby introduce conflicting requirements. To prevent this result the Constitution adopted the law of the sea as the measure of maritime rights and obligations. The confusion and difficulty if vessels were compelled to comply with the local statutes at every port, are not difficult to see. Of course, some within the states may prefer local rules, but the Union was formed with the very definite design of freeing maritime commerce from intolerable restrictions incident to such control. The subject is national. Local interests must yield to the common welfare. The Constitution is supreme.”
5.U.S. Statutes at Large, Vol 30, 55th Congress, Sess 425, Sec. 10 states:
“That the creation of any obstruction not affirmatively authorized by Congress, to the navigable capacity of any of the waters of the United States is hereby prohibited; …”
6.U.S. Supreme Court, State of Wisconsin v. State of Illinois 362 US 482
The phrase “not affirmatively authorized by Congress” as opposed to the phrase “affirmatively authorized by law” which was used in an earlier similar law (51st Congress …) makes mere state authorization inadequate.”
7.U.S. Supreme Court, U.S. Republic Steel Corp. I11 362 US 482
The diminution of navigable capacity is an obstruction to navigation. “Obstruction to navigation is not limited to structures specifically, but also includes diminution of navigable capacity by other means.” {(personal comment) The State declaring areas where anchoring is not allowed is certainly a diminution of navigational capacity.}
8.U.S. Law 28 USC 1333
Admiralty jurisdiction covers every vessel under the American Flag, whether it is on the ocean or within the boundaries of a state, no matter what size or means of propulsion, or whether it is documented or not.
9.Federal District Court, Anderson v. Reames 161 S.W.2d 957 961
“…’rights of navigation’ include the right to anchorage, which may be exercised for either business purposes or pleasure.”
10.Federal District Court, Hayn v. Culliford 3 C.P.Eiv 417
“’navigation’ for some purpose, includes a period when a ship is not in motion, as, for instance, when she is at anchor.”
11.U.S. Supreme Court, Lewis Blue Point Oyster Cultivation Co. v. Briggs 229 US 82
When overturning a lower court case the U.S. Supreme Court said: “If the public right of navigation is the dominant right, and if, as must be the case, the title of the owner of the bed of navigable waters hold subject absolutely to the public right of navigation, this dominant right must include the right to the use of the bed of water for every purpose which is in aid of navigation.”
12.U.S. Law 33 USC 471 Chap 10
“The Secretary of Homeland Security is authorized, empowered, and directed to define and establish anchorage grounds for vessel in all harbors, rivers, bays and other navigable waters of the United States whenever it is manifest to the said secretary that the maritime or commercial interest of the United States require such anchorage grounds for the safe navigation….” {(personal comment) when the language “authorized, empowered, and directed” is used it implies sole authority to perform the named act.}
The list could go on and on, surprising what a little research can find. The Boating Public is a definite minority and it is only by the laws which exist in this country can navigational rights be protected.
As another note, if the state or municipality establishes a mooring field and it is not a federally designated “special anchorage area” all vessels moored there are required by law to show anchor lights at night and during periods of reduced visibility. It is only vessels under 65 feet, when at anchor in a “special anchorage area”, which are exempt. This is not even considering the danger of collision with an unmarked and unlighted mooring ball.
Robert Driscoll
The two St. Augustine mooring fields lie just north and south of the Bridge of Lions and Capt. Miller relays local advice for entering the southern mooring field.
We picked up a mooring in the southern field on April 2nd, 2012.
Approaching from the south, we turned into the mooring field just north of R “10″. The chart and plotter both showed good water but we hit bottom and turned back into the channel (we draw 4.5′). The dockmaster (channel 71) told me to stay in the channel until abeam the northern end of the field before turning in.
Be aware that the water taxi only runs every two hours on the even hours and the last chance to return to your boat is 6:00 pm. If your crew is threatening mutiny, there is a liquor store across from the fort.
The mooring fee is $21.20 per night.
Max Miller
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of St. Augustine Mooring Fields
Claiborne just visited River’s Edge Marina a few weeks ago and reports it to be a quiet, competent facility with a very popular restaurant on-site. This facility lies on the northwestern shores of San Sebastian River, north of marker #29.
Just filled up today (4/6/12). Price was $3.95. Note that there is a 50-gallon minimum. Also, fuel hose can reach all boats on A dock, but not outer reaches of the T. There is transient dockage between A and B docks to fill up but water is thin during low tide. Pumpout also is located there.
Dennis Jay
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of River’s Edge Marina
The shoaling reported by Captain O’Richard below seems to lie approximately 1 nautical mile north of the Waterway’s northern intersection with Ponce de Leon Inlet.
New hazard just south of marker 68A ICW just north of Ponce Inlet Florida. Shoaling depth less than 5 ft at 2 hours after low tide.
Captain O! Richard
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To A “Navigation Alert” Position at Marker #68A
Captain Jim Healy, author of the article below, is a frequent contributor here on the Cruisers’ Net, and many other nautical mailing lists/forums. This posting is excerpted from a long submission to the GL (Great Loop) mailing list! There’s some really GOOD advice here for those contemplating a visit to the historic community of St. Augustine.
See you at the A1A Ale House!
St. Augustine – must see for history of the region; local tour company and good city bus available; alligator farm and lighthouse museum available by bus; A1A Ale House across from the city marina is excellent; easy access from mooring field and city marina. As your very first activity, take a tour of the city to see what’s there; then, plan for what you want to see in more detail.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Charlotte Harbor, Punta Gorda, FL
Monk 36 Hull #132
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of St. Augustine
The new mooring fields in downtown St. Augustine have been both boon and bane, as Capt. Glasser describes below:
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT)
I was always in favor of a mooring field and some regulations as too many boaters left boats unattended for months making it the city’s problem…my days of boating have come down to a short boat ride to the fort, anchoring for 1-2 hrs, back to my marina and then drive to a restaurant for a nice lunch. I replaced my 40′ boat with a 22′ so I could do this with less work. Now comes the mooring field. Two days ago, the mooring field was 70% vacant so with the intent of sunning mysel for an hour I tied up to a mooring. I was willing to pay the $4 hr city dock rate, if asked. After a half hour their launch boat came by and in no uncertain terms I was told I would have to motor in to their dock, register, pay a $20 flat rate day fee or immediately vacate. Sure, I was wrong to steal time at their mooring but I like to play it safe with anchoring and the only choice I have is to anchor in the middle of the harbor or tuck into just adjacent to a spoil island just north of the fort in the middle of a small boat channel. I see no reason why the city can’t set aside a few moorings for hourly boats, have the smaller boats radio in for assignment, and pay the $4-$8 directly to the launch operator, exact change only.I’m really distressed over this whole situation and my love affair with the city is over.(Also for your info, to park a car costs $.25 for 10 minutes and the lots that have meters go to $8-$10 flat fee, 2 yrs ago, if you knew where to park, you could do so for nothing). For certain, this city is neither tourist or boater friendly on any level!!!
Les Glasser
We came into St. Augustine last week at dusk and called for a mooring. They told us we either had to tie up to the dock to complete the paperwork, which would have required waiting for the bridge to open, or take a mooring in the north field and launch our dinghy in the darkness to get to the dockmaster’s office. Either option was the last thing I wanted to do after being at sea for three days. We stop in St. Augustine twice each year and sometimes stay awhile. I’ve never found the over-priced municipal marina welcoming. This time, we left the mooring field and made our way up the San Sebastian River to one of the marinas (Rivers Edge) where we were welcomed openly. It’s much cheaper than the city marina, more protected and just a short walk into town.
Dennis Jay
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the St. Augustine Mooring Fields
Speaking strictly for yours truly, I have no problem with any of Captain Long’s remarks below, except I would point out that it was only because the FWC refused to permit St. Augustine to enact a 10 day anchoring limit for their waters outside of the mooring field, that we now have a far more reasonable 30-day anchoring limit!
Claiborne,
The St. Augustine Municipal Marina staff told me that the no-anchorage buffer from the mooring areas is 100 feet outside the line of the corner posts that deliniate the mooring fields. Speaking as a former harbormaster, I think this is a reasonable standard which should serve as the precedent for the mooring fields being established to the south.
Roger Long
S/V Strider
Claiborne,
I just read the Saint Augustine mooring ordinance and it strikes me as something that should be promoted as a model for other cities. It permits anchoring for longer than any cruiser would be likely to want to, up to 30 days in any 45 day period, and has a “safe harbor” provision for people who are having mechanical trouble or facing bad weather when their time runs out.
Vessels which are anchored or moored year round, which does not effect cruisers, are required to present themselves at the municipal marina twice a year to prove that they are still functional, capable of moving under their own power, and being cared for at least minimally.
My only beef with the city is that there appears to be no way to get ashore from an anchored vessel except to pay the $20 a day fee for use of the marina dinghy dock. This poor shore access that I’ve seen in Florida will probably be a factor keeping me in GA and the Carolinas for most of my future cruising.
Roger
Submitted on 2012/03/12 at 8:49 am
The new mooring field in downtown St. Augustine is back in use. In June, 2011 the moorings were approximately $28 per night and the mooring field was over 70% vacant. I called to check price in February and they quoted approx. $12.00 per night. Big difference in price and it shows with a higher occupancy of boats. With anchoring being prohibited in mooring fields, we have to watch that they don’t raise the price to the point that the mooring field is excessively vacant, because that would yield the same result as just prohibiting boats! Which was not the intent of the law. Anchoring is prohibited in mooring fields to prevent anchored boats from dragging into moored boats, but if a municipality vacates a mooring field because of overpricing, then there’s no reason to prohibit anchoring. We should watch this, as some municipalities that don’t want the boats will implement this trickery (Ft. Meyers, Miami Beach, etc.).
Tim Benner
I just visited River’s Edge Marina myself a few weeks ago, and found it a quiet, competent facility, with a very popular restaurant on-site. This facility lies on the northwestern shores of San Sebastian River, north of marker #29.
Quality is fitness for use. St Augustine’s River’s Edge Marina is a quality marina. Equally important, it is a family owned small business. I’ll patronize those before a government owned marina any day.
We pick our marinas for safety, cleanliness, utility, and management. River’s Edge (formerly Oyster Creek – they changed the name because people inferred “Creek” meant shallow and passed them by. Strange, I thought one used a chart to determine depth). Whatever one calls it, River’s Edge pays attention to the essentials and leaves non-value added glitz to others to charge extra for.) gets high marks from us on all counts. It is in a safe neighborhood. It is protected from surge, wakes and winds. It has safe facilities (docks, decks, pilings, ramps, etc.). It is operated safely. It is clean. The young man who maintains the laundry, heads, and grounds gets a plus by his high mark.
For utility it is very hard to beat. It has the lowest price on commercially supplied diesel for miles (and miles). It is just off US 1, and food & spirits, marine supplies (West), hardware, yada-yada-yada, are literally no more than 15 minutes away — even propane at the St Augustine Beach KOA! If it’s farther, call Eco Ride, a zone-fared taxi that uses a hybrid. Back at the marina, Hurricane Patty’s serves an excellent meal. Its clientele extends well beyond the marina denizens, so they have to pay attention to quality.
And River’s Edge is well-managed. This is our third stay, and once again, we left the boat in their care for the better part of a month while we took a road trip.
SV/Brilliant Star
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of River’s Edge Marina
The newly rebuilt Bridge of Lions crosses the Waterway in downtown St. Augustine, Fl and has a closed vertical clearance of 22ft.
The bridge tender/operator is anything but friendly/cooperative. He will not be flexible if you are approaching the bridge slightly behind a vessel passing through. He would rather see you circle for 29 minutes rather than keeping the bridge open and allow you to pass even though there is little or no traffic.
Perry McDonald
2/29/12
I agree with this comment. Had similar challenge in January 2012. Was to be at bridge on the hour according to GPS, but tender would not open, had to circle 30 minutes.
Capt. Mike
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Eastern Florida Bridge Directory Listing For Bridge of Lions
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Bridge of Lions
This report of shoaling concerns a spot in the center of the Waterway channel 3/4 of a mile south of the Bridge of Lions. If you have found similar depths in this area, please let us hear from you.
I dragged my 4’ – 3” draft hard through the mud in Saint Augustine at the spot indicated here which is shown on the chart as 14 feet MLW. This was an hour and a half and 10 inches before MLW. I was heading northbound from the channel over to where a few boats my size and larger were anchored south of the mooring field.
You can see where I made a couple of other attempts to get into the mooring field and up to the anchorage but was running out of depth fast enough not to want to try it.
I anchored briefly to write this and wait for slack water to go into the marina dock for fuel at the point where the track ends. There is 9.5 feet of water here where the chart says I should be aground so the charts are not to be relied upon in this area.
Roger S/V Strider
Roger: Your report doesn’t surprise me as I doubt that area has been surveyed in years, but where you reported going aground at the 14-foot spot plots out as much closer to the edge of the shoal on my raster NOAA chart than it looks on your chartlet reproduced here. I know that the bottom rises quickly there from good depths to near nothing. Another odd thing is that someone who I trust just the other day gave me a report of where he anchored in St. Augustine and it plotted out aground on the raster chart. I’m wondering if there is a temporary GPS error issue in that area due to the testing in the Southeast that has been announced though I would have thought St. Augustine is too far away.
John Kettlewell
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To A “Navigation Alert” Position at Reported Shoaling
This much needed dredging project will begin at AICW marker #60 where the St. Augustine Inlet intersects the Waterway between Vilano Beach Bridge and the Bridge of Lions. As the project goes forward, the dredge will word its way seaward
FLORIDA-AMELIA ISLAND TO ST AUGUSTINE-ST AUGUSTINE INLET/BEACH: Beach Renourishment.
Marinex Construction Inc will commence dredging operations in the vicinity of the St Augustine Inlet on or about February 5, 2012. The work will extend from inshore Tolomato River LB 60 (LLNR 38910) to offshore St Augustine Inlet Buoy 2 (LLNR 9480). Submerged pipeline will extend from the inlet in a southerly direction and land at St Augustine Beach north of the St Augustine Pier. The dredge operations will continue on a 24 hours per day, 7 days per week basis until approximately June 15, 2012. The dredge “SAVANNAH” will monitor VHF radio channels 13 & 16. Further
information contact the Operations Manager, Mr. Thomas Payne 843-722-9083. Mariners are requested to exercise extreme caution while transiting the area. Charts 11485 and 11488
It’s good to hear of a very positive experience in the St. Augustine mooring field. We have an earlier posting here on the Cruisers’ Net describing an unhappy experience, NOT due to any failing on the part of the St. Augustine City Marina personnel, which manage these city mooring fields, but due to wake from local fishing vessels (see http://cruisersnet.net/?p=76385). Then, happily we also recent published a report that a local no-wake zone was going to be extended to encompass more of the city mooring fields (see http://cruisersnet.net/?p=76662). As you will read below, Captains Ed and Bonnie were the beneficiaries of this newly enlarged no-wake zone!
We have spent several days in the mooring field both spring and fall and have experienced the most courteous marina operators anywhere. In regards to the no wake issue there has been a definite improvement over this spring. We found no issues with commercial fishermen however we also have no problem sharing these waters with the real men & women of the sea.
Our Lord’s Blessings
Ed & Bonnie
S/V Almost Heaven
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the St. Augustine Mooring Fields
Now that anchoring time limits on St. Augustine waters, outside of the three city mooring fields, are set at a do-able 30 days, instead of the proposed 10 days, cruisers can once again begin to ponder where the best places to drop the hook while visiting St. Augustine, are located. Below, Captain Vince Roberts provides some excellent answers to this musing.
Their are plenty of anchoring spots in the St. Augustine area outside of the mooring fields. To name a few. In Salt Run area lots of room for anchoring outside the mooring field . Northeast of the Fort their is ample depth and swinging room for 6+ boats. Also east of the north mooring field off Anastasia Island one can find fairly good holding and swinging room. I have had my Island Packet sailboat here in St. Augustine for the past 10 years and have never had a problem finding a suitable spot to anchor. One must search for a suitable location depending on weather of course. Hope this helps.
Capt. Vince Roberts
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of St. Augustine
On 12/13/11, we posted a thoughtful message here on the Cruisers’ Net about vessels in the southern St. Augustine Mooring Field, being bothered by the wake of crabbers and other local fishing people (see http://cruisersnet.net/?p=76385). In response to that posting, we have excellent, late breaking news out of St. Augustine, courtesy of Captains Tina and Scott, that there is help on the way in regards to this situation. Good works city of St. Augustine!!!
Dinghy Approaches Tender Dock at St. Augustine City Marina
We stayed at the Anchorage Inn Marina across the river from St Augustine municipal marina for a few weeks and agree with the complete lack of enforcement of the current No Wake zone, which ends prior to the mooring field anyway…Good news, the Harbormaster informed me when I called to complain that they had received approval to have the current No Wake bouy moved 500 feet further south of the Bridge of Lions in early January 2012. This will not cover the entire South Mooring Field, but should help some, especially those closer to the marina. I hate to say it, but the worst offenders were the local fishermen and big 4-engined CBP boats from the new CBP National Training Center at SAMC.
Scott & Tina Ligon
Agree with the Good News. The new CBP boats only add to the reckless boats of law enforcement. The local Sheriff’s office has a couple of stolen go-fasts and apparently no training on how to safely operate them.
Jason Martin
How does an unenforced zone being expanded accomplish anything?
Chris
St. Augustine has been much in the cruising news of late, due to its proposed ten day anchorage limit outside of the city’s three mooring fields (which the FWC changed, thankfully, to a 30-day limit). However, Captains John and Carol’s message below pertains to problems they encountered in the city mooring field south of Bridge of Lions, and hard by St. Augustine City Marina.
The messages below are reprinted from the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association forum.
Spent two days at the mooring balls in St. Augustine and will never go there again. They allow crab pots in the middle of the field and DO NOT police the area. The inconsiderate crab potters come into the field on plane, 25 yards from moored boats, stop to check pot, and immediately accelerate away. When mentioned at the office, I was informed that there is nothing they could do and could not stop the crabbers from being in the mooring field. If I had thier number from the boat, they would report the
crabber to authorities however I was too busy picking up lamps and other things in boat to get numbers. I was also told that they know it is a problem. There is not even a no wake disignation for the field. Nice people do operate the city mooring and marina but evidently are powerless. If St. Augustine, which does have a lot to offer in thier downtown area want boaters to stop, they need to get a handle on activities inside the mooring fields so boats and boaters will be safe while moored and unable to maneuver to defend themsleves from inappropriate wakes.
John & Carol Sagel
Captain Ted Stehle, editor for “Waterway Guide” chimed in, and asked the following question:
Which of the three mooring fields were you in?
Ted Stehle
And Captains John and Carol replied:
We were right outside the marina, to the south of the office.
John & Carol Sagel
It only took two stops for us to determine the New Mooring Fields in St. Augustine were designed for us Second Class Citizens. As Capt. John and Carol said there’s no wake restrictions on boats passing the mooring field. Unbelievable! No excuse other than the City doesn’t give a crap otherwise they would have petitioned for a No Wake Zone and Fishing Exclusion Zone when they created the Mooring Fields. My advice is Vote with your pocketbook and bypass doing business with them. That’s what we are doing. Sooner or later they will get the message.
Capt. Jesse Price
And here’s GREAT, late breaking news from St. Augustine:
We stayed at the Anchorage Inn Marina across the river from St Augustine municipal marina for a few weeks and agree with the complete lack of enforcement of the current No Wake zone, which ends prior to the mooring field anyway…Good news, the Harbormaster informed me when I called to complain that they had received approval to have the current No Wake bouy moved 500 feet further south of the Bridge of Lions in early January 2012. This will not cover the entire South Mooring Field, but should help some, especially those closer to the marina. I hate to say it, but the worst offenders were the local fishermen and big 4-engined CBP boats from the new CBP National Training Center at SAMC.
Scott & Tina Ligon
We have spent several days in the mooring field both spring and fall and have experienced the most courteous marina operators anywhere. In regards to the no wake issue there has been a defiant improvement over this spring. We found no issues with commercial fishermen however we also have no problem sharing these waters with the real men & women of the sea.
Our Lord’s Blessings
Ed & Bonnie
S/V Almost Heaven
Fishermen were here before tourist and work for a living. If Cruisers had it their way the ICW would be set up just for them. Don’t Cruisers have any good things to say…all they do is complain, everything I read is how Florida should change laws to suit them…Compromise….oh what is that you say. I’m for No wake zones but powerboats have a right to run in certain areas…although they are few because of the cry babies.
Maybe bypass Florida..perfect.
Darrel Warren
The proposed new dock reported in the article below will be appended to the Vilano Pier which is just north of the Vilano Beach Bridge at mile 776.
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-11-26/new-dock-expected-be-boon-vilano-businesses
By PETER GUINTA
peter.guinta@staugustine.com
Vilano Beach will almost certainly see a boost in commercial activity next summer after a 150-foot floating dock is attached to the Vilano Pier and boat owners learn to tie up their vessels for free, have a meal or drink, then walk a block to shop for groceries.
Herb Rippe, a commissioner with the St. Augustine Port, Waterway & Beach District, said last week that the new dock “is going to be a big deal for Vilano.”
On Nov. 15, the Port board approved $160,000 for its construction — half the cost of the new dock.
A Florida Inland Navigation District grant will pay for the other half.
“Boats will be able to tie up to the dock free for a maximum of four hours,” Rippe said. “It should do incredible things for the Town Center.”
Carl Blow of FIND said their grant was given to St. Johns County, which owns the pier.
He said Jerry Dixon and Tom Rivers, both of the Port District, Vivian Browning of the Vilano Town Center Association and others began thinking about putting a floating dock in place after the Vilano Beach renovations started several years ago.
“The dock will be similar to the ones at St. Augustine Municipal Marina and the one at Lighthouse Park Boat Ramp,” Blow said. “However, it will be heavier duty to stand up to storms and currents.”
Vilano Pier is 600 feet long and the floating dock would be attached about 400 feet out.
Boaters who tie up can go up to the pier via a 10-foot-wide, 80-foot-long aluminum ramp.
Wil Smith, interim director of the county’s Parks and Recreation department, said concrete piles must be pounded into the bottom and then the floating dock — mostly assembled ashore — be bolted together.
“Concrete piles make the dock stronger than average because of its location, (which is subject to) wave action, strong currents and 5- and 6-foot tides,” Smith said.
Rippe said the depth at the dock will be about 25 feet, enough to dock most tall ships.
“The H.M.S. Bounty will be coming to St. Augustine on April 26 and plans to stay for four days,” Rippe said. “The 180-foot long ship draws 13 feet and is visited by an estimated 1,000 to 3,000 people a day.”
The Bounty was used in the 1984 movie “Mutiny on the Bounty” with Mel Gibson and also used in one of the “Pirates of the Caribbean” movies, he said.
Rippe said it is scheduled to be docked at St. Augustine Municipal Marina but believes that the new dock would have twice the depth of the marina and “a substantial economic impact” on Vilano Beach.
“If we treat the Bounty right, it could attract more tall ships to the 450th celebration,” he said. “I’d love to have a bunch of tall ships here.”
From: Bob Novak
Sounds like they already have plans to attract and reserve it for bigger vessels which will exclude its use by cruisers. Too bad.
Bob McLeran
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Vilano Beach Bridge
Despite the controversy surrounding St. Augustine’s proposed anchorage regulations OUTSIDE of the city owned mooring fields, praise for the two new mooring fields continues to come in. The mooring fields lie just north and south of the Bridge of Lions.
We pulled into Salt Run on the evening of the 20th of November and our first observation was “Wow, where did all the junk go?” Our second observation was that there were several lines of crab pots. Upon closer examination the crab pots were white mooring balls, very neatly identified as SR 1, etc. We coasted up to one, caught the painter, and soon had Carolina snugged in.
Around 5:20 pm we were hailed by a St. Augustine Marina employee who got us registered, suggested a ball that had better for our draft, and we paid our $14.00 fee for the night.
We were given a card identifying the ball and the date which gave us access to everything we would have had at the City Marina, other than water and electric.
We fully understand the controversy over anchoring rights in and around various Florida municipalities, but having experienced what St. Augustine has accomplished, are very satisfied with the product.
Steve and Sheila Kamp aboard S/V Carolina
The mooring field at St Augustine wasn’t there our last trip but was being talked about. We thought that it would be wonderful. The blows through there can get pretty rough and no more worries about anchors not holding, and boats drifting into others. 14 a day, isn’t bad. We will be Happy to pay for the mooring on our next trip down! Besides, if You stop in St Augustine 14 bucks will probably be the cheapest thing You purchase!
S/V Gemini
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of St. Augustine Mooring Fields
"Ladys Island Swing Bridge Opening for Sailboat (Beaufort, SC)"
by: Bob Schwerzel
