Crows Nest Marina – Click for Chartview

This rather bizarre, ever growing, string of messages began with the first note posted below from Skipper Joe Apicella about being charged an “overwater tax” while docking overnight at Crows Nest Marina in Venice, Florida (on the Western Florida coastline). Upon reading this note, we chose to research this issue before publishing.
A phone call to the management at Crows Nest Marina confirmed, what Crows Nest describes as, a state (not city or county) tax which they add to all transient bills and have done so since 1998. A second telephone call revealed the interesting fact that the Senior Planner for the City of Venice, who works with the marinas, knew nothing of the tax and had not heard of it.

UPDATE as of 3/12/14 – After calling the attention of the cruising community to this matter in our 3/11/14 SSECN “Alert,” we have received a ton of input, most notably from Skipper Joe Apicella, the author of the first note below, and a VERY SIGNIFICANT article from Skipper Bob Austin who has exhaustively researched this issue, and has provided, what we think, is a definitive overview of just what is happening here. Please be SURE to read all this extensive verbiage, including comments from fellow cruisers set below Skipper Austin’s note.
Wow, talking about stirring up a proverbial “hornet’s nest!”

Update, as of 3/14/14 – we have just received an additional note from Skipper Joe Apicella, placed below (below the important explanation from Skipper Bob Austin and my own remarks in response). As you will see, the owner of Crows Nest Marina has responded to the concerns of the cruising community expressed here and in other nautical forums

Hello All,
I just spent 4 nights in the Crow’s Nest Marina in Venice and was charged $20.64 for what is billed as “overwater tax,” in addition to the sales tax! Is this legit? Has anyone ever been asked to pay this? If it is a legit tax is it usually included in the slip fee? I feel like I have been ripped off. BTW, I have never stayed at a more poorly run marina. See my recent post on Active Captain.
See y’all at FBM,
Joe Apicella

Well, unsurprisingly, the posting above has created a wealth of comment and input here on the SSECN. First, here is a follow-up note from the author of the above article, Skipper Joe Apicella:

I emailed the Marina owner regarding this additional charge, among other things. It was not billed as a tax, the bill just said `overwater charge.’ My first thought was that I used too much water, but that didn’t make any sense. The people at the dock said it was a tax because the marina didn’t own the bottom (under the water). The owner replied that there is a 6% state tax on all underwater structures. He said he fought it, but apparently lost and now chooses to show it so customers cannot blame him for the price increase. My question is, does he collect this for the state like a sales tax which must be sent in monthly, or is it a tax on the bottom for which he is billing customers to recoup costs. I liken this to a hotel adding an additional charge to recoup their property taxes. Apparently he can do this and get away with it as he is the only marina in Venice. Fortunately for us, we don’t have to stay there. With SSECN connections, perhaps we could get more information from a local senator. All help would be appreciated.
Joe Apicella
Glory Days

I just want to clear up a misunderstanding. The fee I was charged, $20.64 was for a 4 day stay, not 1 day as was thought by Ted.
Joe Apicella

Then, we received this very helpful input from Skipper Robert Austin:

Claiborne,
I have not heard of an “overwater tax” either–and have stayed in many marinas in Florida. I wonder if this is just a way for this marina to recoup some of their costs. If slips are rented out, there is a per square foot charge to the marina for each year, for the footprint of the slip (boat). If the marina is a cut back into land, this tax is not due to the state of Florida–but if it is on Florida’s navigable waters, it is charged to each marina, for the use of that land under the water of the slip. A private water front land owner can be charged this tax if he (she), rents out slips at their private dock. I found out about this when our yacht club was discussing fees for the marina–and the issue of cut back into land vs the slips over the florida navigable water lands–where this was collected.
Here is the documentation of this fee at 15 cents a sq foot per year: http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/files/SSL_lease_fee.pdf . This is called the State’owned submerged land lease fee. “For instance, if a single’family dock is located outside an aquatic preserve and has less than 10 square feet of lease area for every foot of riparian shoreline, lease fees are not required. Larger single’ family docks are subject to lease fees and, pursuant to Chapter 18’20, F.A.C., docks located within an aquatic preserve are subject to stricter standards.”
Commercial marinas require authorization which may include approval by the Board of Trustees at a regularly scheduled Cabinet meeting, depending on the size of the lease area. These types of facilities can be private or public with the public facilities being eligible for a 30 percent discount on the lease fees if they have at least 90 percent of the slips available to the general public. In addition, marinas that receive the Clean Marina designation from DEP can earn another 10 percent discount. These discounts encourage and reward marinas that provide public access to the waters of the state.
The standard lease term is five years but is increased to ten years for marinas that are at least 90 percent open to the public. Extended term leases of up to 25 years may be obtained if certain rule conditions are met and an additional fee is paid for the extended term. All leases require a non’ refundable processing fee and a lease may be modified and/or assigned to another party if the lessee is complying with statutes and rules and has no outstanding lease fees.
Lease fees are paid annually and are calculated using two components ‘“ a base fee and the amount of revenue generated. The base fee is computed by multiplying the amount of leased square footage by a base fee rate. The current base fee rate is approximately 15¢ per square foot of lease area and is adjusted annually based on the Consumer Price Index. There is a minimum base fee of approximately $460 which is also adjusted annually based on the Consumer Price Index. This translates into an annual minimum lease fee for leases of approximately 3,000 square feet or less. For all new leases, there is a one’time initial surcharge of 25 percent of the base fee due when the lease is executed.
The second component used to determine lease fees is whether any revenue is generated from the use of the state’owned submerged land. Lessees must complete the Annual Wetslip Revenue Report declaring any income generated within the lease area. Examples of this would be any money earned from a lessee renting slips to other individuals, any money associated with the value of a slip that someone receives when selling the exclusive use of the slip along with a condominium unit, and rental or sales income an individual condominium owner receives when selling their rights to use a slip to a neighbor or other party. If there is revenue generated from the leased area and 6 percent of this revenue is greater than the base fee (15¢ per square foot of lease area), then the lease fee owed to the Board of Trustees would be 6 percent of the income generated.
I have run into this in Calif–where we were charged directly by the state for the foot print of our boat over the land under the water, when we were paying fees to the City of Long Beach Municipal Marina (for many years)–this tax was beyond the fee the city collected. On the other hand, I owned a water front home in Huntington Harbor (CA) where I actually owned the land under the water half way across the canal (mistake when the subdivision was plotted, and there were two house–mine and the one across from me, where the land was deeded to the adjacent upland owner).
My personal opinion, is that “Crow’s Nest Marina” is ripping off the boaters–and padding their income. Hopefully someone will look into this. If you look up all of the comments on mooring field taxes–they include 6 to 7% Florida, plus county tax (counties can add more to the state sales tax in Florida)–not a single one of these has a “over water tax”. One way to bring this out in the open would be to ask the Florida Tax department–or this trust (see above) to do an audit on Crows Nest Marina!
Regards–and again thanks for all you do for the boating community!
Bob Austin, Pensacola (currently in Marathon) FL.

So, as you can see from Skipper Austin’s rather definitive note, what we are talking about here is a leasehold fee levied by the state of Florida for the bottom land over which a marina’s docks are located. And, remember, the state of Florida claims ownership of all bottom land out to several miles offshore.
In an indirect way, I can verify this. Some twelve years ago, my home state of North Carolina had a dangerous flirtation with the idea of a similar bottom land leasehold fee. As originally written, had this regulation/fee gone into effect, it is unlikely any dock would ever had been built again in NC waters. Fortunately, a coalition of the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net, Boat/US and many, many NC marina owners came together and largely defeated this measure.
As all this discussion and debate were going forward about an NC bottom land lease fee, Florida was cited time and time and again as a state that ALREADY charged its marinas a fee for the use of bottom-land over which their docks were located.
Clearly, based on the wealth of input both above and below, the vast majority of Sunshine State marinas are simply absorbing this fee as a cost of doing business in Florida.

Update, as of 3/14/14 – we have just received this note below from Skipper Joe Apicella, whose related experience began this discussion. As you will see, the owner of Crows Nest Marina has responded to the concerns of the cruising community expressed here and in other nautical forums:

Dear Claiborne,
I want to inform you that Mr. Harner, owner of Crow’s Nest Marina has personally responded to my issue regarding the “overwater” charges and the cable problem. He assured me he chose to show the “overwater” charge separate from his rates as a means of protest and of letting boaters know where the money was going. This was not disclosed to me when I made the reservation and was the reason for the confusion. He has refunded the $20.64 plus an appropriate amount for the cable issue. He will also include this surcharge in his rates to avoid further confusion. I would appreciate it if you would publish this so that we may avoid any further harm to his good reputation.
All the best,
Joe Apicella

And, LOTS more input from the cruising community below!

A big thank you to Bob Austin for providing these details. This confirms what we thought to be the marina trying to pass on there own operating costs to the boaters in the guise of a `tax’ by the State. I too would think that this practice is bordering on illegal, since they represent it as a state tax, if at the very least deceptive. Since they admit doing this since 1998, it just means they have been getting away with it and have not yet been caught. Perhaps that might change since the spotlight is now on them. Thanks for bringing all this to our attention Claiborne.
Chuck Baier

I think what is involved here is a Florida `submerged land lease fee.’ We have a community marina here in Fort Myers with the approach channel over state waters. The marina itself is on private land. We are in the process of renewing our lease with the state for that portion of the submerged land under our access channel. There is a fee involved with this. Sounds like the Crow’s Nest Marina is trying to recoup their lease fee from slip renters and transient boaters.
Carroll Swanson

Interesting’¦.
Crows Nest specifically lobbied against the former overnight dockage at nearby Higel Park Dock.
Now that I hear they are the only Marina in town, that makes more sense.’¦.but whatever happened to promised the Venice Mooring Field?
Jim Quince

Claiborne,
Bob Austin is absolutely and thoroughly right. You may recall we discussed this back in September, 2012. Bob provided the link on the Florida DEP site to the lease fee structure. Here is a link to the actual lease template that the DEP uses with marinas: http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/files/ssl_lease_template.pdf. `SSL’ here stands for `State Sovereign Lands.’ When we discussed this, it was in the context of liveaboard rules. Paragraph 29 of the standard lease agreement contains the DEP’s definition of `liveaboard vessel.’ Paragraph 1 contains the language that controls whether or not the marina can offer liveaboard tenancy as a service.
The marina operator’s lease requirement is based on DEC rule-making, which it is empowered to do under the Governor’s Authority (through cabinet offices) of the Florida State Constitution and under related Florida Statute. Those rules, once adopted, have the same force and effect as if they were statute adopted by the legislature itself.
Anyway, it is common practice for all marinas on the east and gulf coasts to charge separately for 30A and 50A electricity. That has the effect of padding their per foot transient rates. It’s clear from the foregoing discussion that the Crow’s Nest is additionally padding their per foot transient rate to directly recover their lease fee. That is a scam I have never seen anywhere else in Florida. I suspect if this wasn’t a scam, other marinas would also do it. Hey! Maybe that’s coming’¦ Hmmm’¦ Oh, joy! Something to look forward to’¦
Jim Healy

I am on board of Factory Bay Marina Marco Island. We are charged 25K or 6% of total revenue, whichever is greater, by Florida for land use .This is paid by slip owners. Also we have to charge 6% of any commercial revenue generated by slipowners.
Ray Lovett

Florida is rife with taxes. This sounds like the marina is just trying to pass along part of their taxes to thetransient renters.
I own a condo-slip for which I get a yearly `Property Tax’ bill. Although I own no real property, (e.g. the underwater land,) the state doesn’t care and the country participates in collecting the tax, as if I owned the property. Hence, the state gets the best of both; they own the land but can still tax and limit my use of it.
The over-regulations never end in this country!
Jason Martin

Everyone,
You may have encountered a local municipal tax or a local county tourist tax that applies to transient dockage. Those things are local and are legal. Of course you may have been ripped off because a Florida business can charge fees for products and services, but it can only collect “taxes” for a legitimate taxing authority such as a port authority, city, county, and the state of Florida. I would challenge the business operator to point to the state statute or local ordinance that permits the collection of the tax above the Florida state/county sales tax.
Harold

Joe,
That’s a new one on me. Definitely worthy of a conversation with the dockmaster. But Venice has a long history of anti-boating and anti-boater behavior. Like Marco. We skip ’em…
That said, Marine Max on the canal just south of Venice often has the best fuel prices in the region, so if you need fuel, be sure to check while you’re in that area.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary,

Venice does indeed have a fairly new “Structures Over Water” regulation.
What I could not find was whether there was an associated tax to be passed on to consumers or if the “tax” on the Crow’s Nest bill was their wording to recoup the cost of complying with the regulation. A phone call to Crow’s Nest should clear this up.
We stayed there two years ago,’‹ our net cost came to $1.98 ft. Power was OK, wifi was not. We didn’t try to get into the restaurant. Lots of places in town. Had a lot of fun mixing with locals on the island in the middle of the inlet.
Ron Matuska
Dunedin FL

Claiborne, has anyone other than Crows Nest Marina verified this `tax’? I have been boating in every inch of Florida waters for over 20 years and have never heard of or been charged this tax. I just ain’t buyin it. At best it’s a state tax to the marina, but doubtful that it should apply to boaters. Just because they have been charging it since 1998, doesn’t mean this is a legitimate charge. Me thinks further investigation is in order.
Chuck

So this place claims to have been charging a non existant state tax since 1998? Sounds like time for the atty gen to clean their clocks. $20 per day per boat should add up to millions in phony fees.
Ted

We have stayed at the Crow’s Nest a number of times, and we usually need to pay the fee. I believe it applies only for boats on the western part of the long face dock. I was told some years ago that the fee was required by `someone’ because the docked boats extend into an official federal channel. I have no idea if this is pure BS or not.
Other than the morning wakes from fishing boats leaving at 5 am we have no complaints. Power, WiFi, water, showers, etc. are OK. Not the Ritz, but not really worth complaining about.
Gene Fuller

We have stayed in Venice several times,but not in several years, and always really liked it the marina then was well run and there was even a free dock in town. Sorry to hear things have deteriorated.
Joan Clark

I wonder if this is happening on the East Coast. Maybe this is just a `Left Coast’ thing to raise more tax or discourage cruisers clogging up the anchorages. I have stayed at the City Marina in St Augustine and didnt see a over the water tax unless it was included in the rate. Webster.s ‘ Money charged for the right to anchor, as in a port.’
Tim Grissette

We stay at the Marathon Marina in Marathon, Fla. Keys’¦
They charge a `Submerged Land Lease Fee’ in addition to the Sales Tax. Sounds like the same `tax’ you have been talking about ! !
Rich D

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