(Editor’s Note as of 1/23/13 – Two of the prinipal questions posed in the article below have been answered in a later published posting here on the SSECN. See /?p=106014. We are leaving this older article in place for awhile, as it contains additional information, particularly in regards to “antique” Florida boat registration).

Recently, we published yet another discussion of the Florida Sojourners Permit here on the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net (see /?p=104513). As part of our introductory remarks, one of the reasons we cited for obtaining such a permit was:

“1. If your vessel is registered in another state besides Florida, you can operate in Floridian water for up to 90 days without a problem. HOWEVER, if your vessel is Federally Documented, and NOT ALSO state registered, you MUST register it with the state of Florida, or you may be ticketed immediately upon entering Floridian waters. Or, put another way, Federally Documented vessels MUST ALSO be state registered (either with Florida or another state), or you face the possibility of a ticket.
By the way, it’s this onerous feature of Florida state law that used to allow the “Venice Water Nazi” to ticket boats coming and going in the city of Venice.”

Well, a new wrinkle has surfaced since we published this report, which originally appeared on the SailBoatOwners.com forum. One of this list’s enterprising members unearthed the Florida statute that controls this situation, and here it is:

328.58’ƒReciprocity of nonresident or alien vessels.’”The owner of any vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which has been awarded by:
(1)’ƒAnother state pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state;
(2)’ƒThe United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system; or
(3)’ƒThe United States Coast Guard for a federally documented vessel with a valid registration in full force and effect from another state,
shall record the number with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles prior to operating, using, or storing the vessel on the waters of this state in excess of the 90-day reciprocity period provided for in this chapter. Such recordation shall be pursuant to the procedure required for the award of an original registration number, except that no additional or substitute registration number shall be issued if the vessel owner maintains the previously awarded registration number in full force and effect.
History.’”s. 1, ch. 59-399; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 6, ch. 84-184; s. 57, ch. 96-413; s. 16, ch. 99-289; s. 25, ch. 2009-86.
Note.’”Former s. 371.081; s. 327.16.

Now, IF YOU READ THIS CAREFULLY, it would appear that if you have a Federally documented vessel, and IF your vessel’s home port is in a state that refuses to state register Federally documented vessels, your vessel is excused from the requirement of having to have some sort of state registration while navigating in Floridian waters.

It is a fact that certain states do indeed refuse to state register Federally documented vessels. The state of Maine is an example.

So, consider this message which first called our attention to this possible exception:

I repeated your information about not having a state registration for a documented vessel being a ticketable offence in Florida on my blog and got shot down. You should check this post which has the cite:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=148671&#post990299

The specific wording is:
328.58’ƒReciprocity of nonresident or alien vessels.—The owner of any vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which has been awarded by:
(1)’ƒAnother state pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state;
(2)’ƒThe United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system; or
Italics added.

I know this doesn’t mean that know nothing jackboots aren’t issuing tickets in ignorance of their own laws but it does mean cruisers with documented vessel have a leg to stand on if they are from a state like Maine.
I still wouldn’t take this as absolute gospel without a lawyer. For example, Maine does have a number system for non-documented vessels and I assume it it federally approved. The state does not have registration for documented vessels other than local excise tax and a decal. I’ll bet you could spend five figures arguing this in court in FL if you decided to contest a ticket.
It’s getting so you can’t cruise intra-state without a lawyer on retainer.
Roger Long
S/V Strider

So, what does all this mean? If you have a Federally documented vessel, whose home port is located in a state that does not allow state registration of said vessel, does that indeed mean you can legally operate in Florida waters for up to 90 days WITHOUT your vessel being registered in any state???? Quite frankly, we do NOT yet have a definitive answer to that, but we are working on it!

Any of you out there who are attorneys, particularly if you practice in Florida, we would WELCOME your input!!! Please follow the “Click Here to Submit Cruising News” link on the upper right of this, and all (except Chart View) SSECN pages, and share your information.

One final point, even if this is a correct interpretation of Florida state law, that does not mean that some on-the-water “county mountie” who barely knows that the bow is the pointy end of the boat, may not write you a ticket anyway if your vessel is not state registered.

As noted above, we’ll keep working on this thorny “only in Florida” problem!

And, just in case you didn’t think this is a MURKY issue, we received these thoughts from fellow nautical author, and long time Florida cruiser, Captain John Kettlewell:

Claiborne:
Florida has always interpreted this as requiring your boat to have a “registration” in some state, whether or not it is “documented.” In 328.58 the sentence labeled (2) refers to the practice in the past that the Coast Guard provided state registration numbers and services in a couple of states that had no state registration program. I am not certain if any states still do not have a “registration” program, but it used to be this way in New Hampshire and Alaska, for example. The sentence labeled (3) is the one that pertains to most documented boats, and states clearly that even if you have CG documentation you must have a state registration to operated in Florida. The Venice “water Nazi” used to be quite explicit about these when he ticketed someone. The confusion comes because the terms “registration” and “documentation” mean different things.
John J. Kettlewell

Meanwhile, here is some seemingly contradictory info from Captain Ted Guy, maritime lawyer in Stuart, Florida, and past president of the Treasure Coast Marine Industries Association:

For LESS than 90 days, no Documented vessel requires paying Florida tax or “registration”.
W.E. Ted Guy, Jr.

Ted, my understanding has been that law enforcement understands the law to mean even a documented vessel must have a state registration from some state to operate on Florida waters for those 90 days, even if your home state does not require you to register a documented vessel.
John Kettlewell

Are there any vessels that are `grandfathered’ from this regulation? For instance, a documented 1965 vessel that has been in Florida since 1970 and continuously operated in Florida waters.
sv Karen from Chicago

Karen, there is no `grandfathering,’ but if your boat is 30 years old it qualifies as an antique vessel and it is very cheap to register it in Florida’“something like $5 per year in most counties. Here is a link to information on that: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87243.pdf
John Kettlewell

Here is a VERY GOOD question. Anyone got an answer?

Would someone please define `90-day period’.

Is it 90 consecutive days?
Is it 90 days in a calendar year (1/1 ‘“ 12/31)?
Is it 90 days in a 365 day period?
Is it 90 days, period.
Jeff Graham

Now, here’s a really GOOD idea. We’ll get right on it!

Claiborne,
Perhaps you, or Larry, could write on SEECN letterhead to the Florida Attorney General and ask for a legal `opinion’ that applies to USCG Documented Vessels from states that do not register vessels. I know in NY an Attorney General’s `opinion’ carries the force of law in any NYS court of competent jurisdiction. It would be `enlightening’ to see what Pam Bondi has to say about this, and her opinion would bind courts and future administrations in the absence of intervening legislative action. The request must be rather specifically worded. Perhaps Ted Guy could help craft it.
Whatdya think?
Jim

Another twist. I live in a state which requires surrender of federal documentation if you wish to register a federally documented vessel in that state. However, they did not require me to surrender mine when I registered my boat. Therefore I have a current state registration and a current federal documentation. I guess I get to pay double in Florida?!
Reggie

Claiborne answers – No, Reggie, I think you are OK. If your vessel is state registered in any state, then you are compliant with Florida state law, at least for stays less than 90 days! A stay of more than 90 days means you will have to acquire a Sojourners Permit!

Reggie,
Could it be that you’d surrender your USCG COD (a US Government Certificate of Title) if you wanted to `TITLE’ it in your home state? Titling and registration are *not* the same thing, legally, although they are often done together, and some states will process them together. This is a case where boats are very different from cars, and the automobile model does *not* apply to boats. You can not `Title’ a car with any US government agency, such as we do with the Coast Guard for boats. Because of a quirk in that process, I actually wound up with both a State of Maryland Certificate of Title and a USCG COD for Sanctuary.
Jim Healy, aboard Sanctuary

I printed out and read through the antique exception. If I understand it correctly, the vessel must first be registered in Florida, and then the registratio can be changed to antique.
Reggie

A couple of years ago, we published complete instructions here on the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net about what a Florida Sojourner’s Permit is, and why it was/is so important. Well, it’s time to refresh that information here as the fall, 2012 transient season gets underway.
First, here is the message, which originally appeared on the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association forum which prompted us to get off our duffs and bring this issue anew to the attention of the cruising community.

If you plan on staying in Florida over 90 days, you need to consider getting a Sojourners permit. Most Florida tax collectors are not familiar with the program and when you go for yours, take along all the forms your will need. Permit is good for 11 months, cost us less than $125. Florida, as do all other states, limits the time you can spend there without registering your boat in their state.
Go to http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html for more information.
You should also refer to yourself as long-term cruiser, not live-aboard.
Ron Matuska
Dunedin, FL

Now, why is it important to get a Sojourner’s Permit if you plan to have your vessel in Floridian waters longer than 90 days. There are at least two reasons, and one is referred to in Captain Ron’s message above.

1. If your vessel is registered in another state besides Florida, you can operate in Floridian water for up to 90 days without a problem. HOWEVER, if your vessel is Federally Documented, and NOT ALSO state registered, you MUST register it with the state of Florida, or you may be ticketed immediately upon entering Floridian waters. Or, put another way, Federally Documented vessels MUST ALSO be state registered (either with Florida or another state), or you face the possibility of a ticket.
By the way, it’s this onerous feature of Florida state law that used to allow the “Venice Water Nazi” to ticket boats coming and going in the city of Venice.
If your vessel remains in Florida for longer than 90 days, even if it’s registered in another state, YOU MUST ALSO REGISTER IT IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA UNLESS YOU OBTAIN A SOJOURNER’S PERMIT! Conversely, iF you succeed in getting a Sojourner’s Permit in hand you will not have to fork over for a costly FL state registration (again, see below) for stays up to 11 months.
My, my wasn’t that fun!

2. With a Sojourner’s Permit, you will NOT be hassled to pay sales tax on your vessel. I know this sounds crazy, but if your boat has been owned out of state for less a year before being brought into Florida, and the state in which you purchased your vessel does not collect sales tax on purchases of pleasure boats, the Sunshine State will actually try to charge sales tax on your vessel’s purchase price, if you stay in Floridian waters longer than 90 days (without a Sojourner’s Permit). So, to avoid this ridiculous and expensive charge, get a Sojourner’s Permit. Again, crazy, I know!

OK, so the above is why obtaining a Sojourner’s Permit is a really good idea. How does not obtain such a document?

We are pleased to report that our good friend, Captain Mike Dickens at Paradise Yacht Sales and Service (Fernandina Beach, FL, http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html) provides what cruisers need to obtain one of these permits on his web site. Follow the links below.

Sojourner’s Permit Form – http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87244.pdf

Sojourner’s Permit Instructions – http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/Sojourner1.pdf

Hopefully, along with a little cash, that’s all you will need to cruise tax free in the Sunshine State for up to 11 months. Of course, if any member of the cruising community has found out DIFFERENTLY, WE NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU! Please send all your comments and accounts of your experiences directly to:

CruisersNet@triad.twcbc.com

Good luck and good cruising to all!

Have question concerning this. Our boat is documented only as our state does not require a registration if doucumented. So this information says to aquire the Sojourner permit you need a copy of registration. What do we need to do for this? Thanks for any help on this.
Susan Dawson S/V Colleen Mae

In my original post I noted our Fl permit was good for 11 months. I am not sure if the period was related to when we purchased, Jan 2012, good until Dec 2012, or to some other criteria. You get the permits at a DMV / Tax collector office and in Florida, vehicle registrations end the month of your birthdate, and my birthmonth is December. Also, at the time we purchased the permit we were Illinois residents, our boat was registered in Delaware, and is USCG documented. We stayed in Florida from about Dec 1, 2011 until June 1, 2012. After cruising the east coast this summer, we left our boat in NJ for winter storage when we will continue north again.
Ron Matuska

And, here’s some valuable input from fellow nautical author, Captain John Kettlewell:

Looking around at different county websites it is pretty clear that most say your boat must be state registered to get the Sojourner permit. Some states, like Massachusetts where I keep my boat, do not require state registration of documented vessels, so there is no real savings in hassle for me. I would have to first get a state registration before heading to Florida. In fact, I don’t believe Florida has any grace period for documented vessels–your boat has to be state registered somewhere to operate on Florida waters.

From Manatee County here: http://www.taxcollector.com/contactapp/question_detail.cfm?question=498&category=3

Yes, the State of Florida recognizes valid registration certificates and numbers from another state issued to visiting boaters for a period of 90-days on recreational boats only. You can operate your out-of-state registered boat on Florida waterways without obtaining a Florida registration/decal.
However, if you reside in Florida for more than 90-days, you must either title and register your boat in Florida or purchase a Sojourner registration (if you plan on taking the boat back to your home state).

To obtain a Sojourner registration, you must:

1. Provide a copy of the out-of-state registration showing the boat details, out of state # and owner names.
2. Complete Form 87244 Application for Non-Titled Boat

However, the sales tax thing is also clear. Many of us will not owe sales or use tax even if we have to register in Florida, unless we bought the boat within the last six months and/or we are Florida residents:

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800005.pdf

Under most conditions, use tax and surtax are due on boats brought into Florida within 6 months from the date of purchase. However, use tax may be due upon importation into Florida, under either of the following conditions:

‘¢ The boat belongs to a Florida resident; or
‘¢ The boat belongs to a corporation for the use of a corporate officer or director who is a Florida resident or who owns, controls, or manages a dwelling in Florida.
John J. Kettlewell

By the way, for some of us with older boats (30 years or more) Florida has an antique boat registration that is very cheap. I believe you are exempted from most of the annual registration fee. More information here: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87243.pdf
JJK

I’m reading and rereading the words and am thoroughly confused. We live in NC, purchased our boat in NC, paid the sales tax on our boat to NC, and annually pay property tax on our boat. Our boat is a USCG documented vessel ‘“ NC does not require state registration on USCG documented vessels. We plan to visit FL this season but for less than 90 days. Do we need a Sojourner’s Permit? I’m still not sure about the answer to this question.
BMasinton

Claiborne answers:
OK, I have an answer for that one. Since you will be in Florida for less than 90 days, you do NOT need a Sojourners Permit.
HOWEVER, your troubles are not over. FLORIDA REQUIRES STATE REGISTRATION EVEN THOUGH YOUR BOAT IS FEDERALLY DOCUMENTED. You have three bad choices.
1. You can not state register your vessel, and hope you don’t get stopped in Florida, knowing that if you are, you WILL be ticketed!
2. You can register your boat with the state of Florida, which, I’m told, is an expensive proposition
3. You can register your boat in NC, even though our state does not require state registration for Federally documented vessels. Florida WILL accept NC (or any other state) registration, BUT you must have your state registration papers aboard, and put the appropriate sticker on your boat’s bow.
As I said, no really good alternative, but, for my money, I would pick #3.
Don’t shoot the messenger. That’s my take on your situation!

After receiving the first message below, there was some question whether the state of North Carolina would state register a Federally Documented vessel. Turns out “titling” and “registering” are two very different creatures, at least in the Tar Heel state, and, as you will read below, it IS possible to “register” a documented boat in NC.

Hi again
I checked the NC Web site for vessel registration (which I use for our dinghy registration) and it’s curious to note that the lead questions on the VL-1 form are this:

1) Is this vessel documented by the US Coast Guard Yes or No (If Yes, vessel cannot be titled)
2) Is this vessel 14′ or longer, or a personal watercraft Yes or No (If Yes, vessel must be titled)

Registration must be a different process than titling Hmmm
My answer to both of these questions is Yes guess I’ll give them a call on Monday
BMasinton

Hi Claiborne ‘¦
Here’s what we just learned from NC Wildlife Resources Commission – both on their Web site (http://www.ncwildlife.org/Boating.aspx) and by phone (1-800-628-3773). They will also take questions via email at
vessels@ncwildlife.org.
Actually the woman we spoke with chuckled and puzzled over why in the world we’d want to register our boat with NC if it’s already a USCG documented vessel! She did say that we couldn’t title the vessel – but if we wanted to pay $15 for 1 year (or $40 for 3 years), we needed to complete form VL1 (see link below), submit a copy of our USCG documentation paperwork, and they would get us registered.
Here’s the link to the NC form VL1:
http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Boating/documents/VL1Form.pdf
So hopefully once that is done and we receive our registration number for NC, if we carry that paperwork and display our NC number on the bow of our boat, we won’t be pestered or ticketed by FL authorities – if we stay less than 90 days.
By the way, we always carry our tax information on board.
Is that your understanding, given this information?
Thanks again for providing us your info – hopefully our follow-up will help others.
Barb & Roy Masinton
s/v Waterdog
Oriental

One suggestion to Captains Barb and Roy – see Captain Ted’s remarks below. Looks like it’s NOT a good idea to paint your NC registration numbers on your bow IF and only if your vessel is Federally documented!

After reading some of this discussion last week I registered my documented vessel with North Carolina, we live in NewBern, for three years for a total of $60.00.
We are heading to the Bahamas on the 15th but will bepassing through Flordia (very quickly).
Newton Collyar
S/V Bifrost

Claiborne,
You suggested putting registration numbers on a documented boat. That is against USCG documentation rules. Putting the registration STICKER on is OK, but not the state registration number on the bow.
Second; some people get titling & registration mixed. If federally documented, that is your title. In that case, you CANNOT state TITLE, but you can state register a CG documented boat. The state will issue a reg number & sticker. You can use the reg number for paperwork but do not put it on the bow. The sticker should be sufficient for the water cops.
Ted

Yikes
We’ve just reviewed the further post from Captain Ted and this may have answered our question of latest concern.
We’re in the process of renewing our USCG certificate of documentation and there’s one paragraph on the form that states this:
`If the vessel has been lost, sold, abandoned, destroyed, or placed under state numbering [and isn’t that what we’re about to request by registering our boat in NC?], the vessel owner must notify the National Vessel Documentation center in writing. If the Certificate of Documentation is available, it must be surrendered.’
We did try to give the Documentation Center a call today (1-800-799-8362) to ask their advice, as we wish to retain our Certificate of Documentation ‘“ but they were closed for the holiday. We will call tomorrow. Meanwhile, we’ve not mailed a thing and won’t do so until we know for certain we are proceeding with our best interests in mind.
Barb & Roy Masinton
s/v Waterdog

And, a very important final message from Captains Barb and Roy. As you will see, it IS possible to register their vessel in North Carolina, thereby avoiding having to register it in Florida, and STILL RETAIN their Federal Documentaton!

Hi Claiborne and others!
Here’s the next (and maybe last) installment in the search for answers to our sojourner’s permit questions. After talking today (10/9/12) to a documentation officer from the National Vessel Documentation Center in West Virginia (1-800-799-8362), she gave me the following advice and guidance: Yes, we can obtain a NC vessel registration number and not be in conflict with our Certificate of Documentation from the Coast Guard, provided we 1) do not title our vessel with NC, 2) do not affix any registration numbers or stickers to our vessel, 3) continue to follow all the rules applicable to a documented vessel. If we follow these 3 guidelines, we do not have to surrender our Certificate of Documentation. If we carry our NC registration paperwork on board while cruising in FL waters (for less than 90 days) we can demonstrate to officials that we have been responsible in paying fees to NC, and FL fees are not required and potential ticketing in FL will no longer be an issue. We are comfortable with this advice and look forward to our cruise down south this season.
Thanks everyone for helping with answers and comments.
Barb Masinton and Captain Roy
s/v Waterdog

Regarding the 90 days’¦
is this 90 days per calender year?
Lets say I enter Fl Dec 1st and leave for the Bahamas Jan 30. That’s 2 months. When I come back do I have 1 month or 2 left in my 90 days? And when I come back in the fall?
How do they track your comings & goings? Do marinas like Fernandina Beach turn in reports to FWC? Bascule bridges?
How heavy is the burden of proof of your entry into the state?
Ted

For the last week or so, there has been a lively discussion on the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association forum (http://www.greatloop.org) about the issue of liveaboards, particularly as this issue relates to facilities in Florida. All of us at the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net are aware of the importance of this issue to the cruising community, and will soon make available a comprehensive, professionally researched list of marinas where liveaboards are welcome. Until that happy event, listen to what our fellow mariners have to say by following the link below! This discussion is just too lengthy to post in its entirety here.

/florida-marina-liveaboard-discussion