Cruisers' Net | Cruisers Helping Cruisers

Nov 20, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 3 Comments
Deep Keel Vessel Needs Your Advice
This question is unusual, not because of Skipper Aigeltinger’s concern for Waterway depths, but because of his vessel’s 7ft 3inch draft. Whether that draft is fin keel or full keel, that is a lot of draft with which to confront the shallow spots in North Carolina. He has access to our listing of NC Problem Stretches, but is asking for your input into his decision to attempt the ICW from Norfolk to Beaufort, NC, which, fortunately for him, is north of all the Inlet/ICW intersections further south.
I am considering delivering a 44 ft sailboat from the Chesapeake to Florida. Draft is 7 ft 3 in. Would like to know if anyone knows if it’s possible to get that from Norfolk to Beaufort in the ICW ? Or if anyone could direct me to a source for that info.
Thanks, Ed Aigeltinger
Note this praise for Argus:
The Argus soundings are really helpful. I followed ICW all the way from Norfolk to Beaufort, NC and it looks like the most questionable area is a few miles north of Beaufort. (That area just north of the Alligator River bridge where the channel takes a turn or two around some shoals has always been poorly marked. Have to be careful there but I think there’s plenty of water if you stay channel center.) The shallow area just north of Beaufort is at the south end of the Adams Creek Canal and as I recall that part is narrow and the markers are a little far apart making it a little difficult to stay in the channel. On the chart the Argus readings are shown to be out of the channel. So I wonder if the chart is wrong or if whoever did the Argus run missed the channel, hence the shallow readings there ?? Would appreciate any input from anyone re that. I plan to call Jarrett Bay Boatworks and Beaufort Docks and ask for some local knowledge. Would hate to run 199 miles from Norfolk and get 3-4 miles away only to not be able to get there. However, if the readings are right, the shallowest I see is just over 4 ft and the tidal range is about 3 ft so still might be able to skim through at high tide.
Thanks again for your help-Ed
Thanks to all for the info re the ICW depth from Norfolk to Beaufort, NC.
I also spoke with the dockmaster at Beaufort Docks and he assured me there was plenty of depth at Core Creek if one is careful to stay in the channel. It’s narrow there and the markers are a little far apart. Apparently the Argus boat was a little out of channel hence the readings down to 4 ft. Dockmaster also said he has a friend who comes down each year with 9 ft. He said to be careful to stay as close to center as possible in the Alligator River-Pungo River canal as his friend has hit some pretty hard stuff a little off center.
As you mention fixed bridge height is also a concern. Boat I may deliver is 62 ft to mast top and 65 ft to antenna top. (I brought a cat down once and rang almost every beam on the bridges with the antenna. A little nerve wracking.) So if anyone has or hears any local knowledge re bridge height problems I would certainly appreciate the info. I may try to do what I’ve done a few times in the past. Install a 4-5 ft long piece of 1Ã—4 wood at the mast head going forward and then a vertical piece at the forward end that is about a foot higher than the highest solid part of the mast. One can then creep up to the first beam and if this ‘˜indicator’ goes under all is hopefully well. If not heavy reverse is in order.
Thanks again for the info and please keep me in mind if you hear anything else of importance.
Ed Aigeltinger
November 30:
Larry-
Thanks again for your help with ICW depth issue. I had no idea about the ARGUS ‘program’. Obviously with that kind of data in the laptop one could cruise the ICW from data point to data point. Really amazing stuff !
Thanks again,
Ed Aigeltinger
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Comments from Cruisers (3)

Rick Emerson -  November 20, 2014 - 9:35 pm

7’+ along the Coinjock or Virgina Cut route is certainly possible. Keep in mind that most of the route, save for Core Creek, near Beaufort, is not tidal, save for wind-driven tides. For that reason, you need to be certain that your air draft (masthead height) is no more than 63′. Not all “65′” bridges have the listed clearance, and there is no tide to help clearance.
We’ve traveled with a boat drawing close to 7′ 6″ who, last time I saw her, had made it as far south as at least the Waccamaw River. We draw 6′ and, with attention to tides, made it to St. Simons Sound before going outside to Fernandina Beach, where we are at the moment.
Reply to Rick

Michael Tigar -  November 20, 2014 - 5:50 pm

This can be done. Take the Virginia Route. Be very careful just north of Allligator River Bridge, and go when it is not low water there. Just south of Core Creek Bridge, in Adams Creek, go at mid-tide or higher and stay carefully in the channel. Then head towards Morehead City harbor and double back to get into Beaufort.
Reply to Michael

CAPT Ron Crook -  November 20, 2014 - 5:16 pm

I am of the belief that you should not have much trouble with th 7 03″ draft as far as Beaufort, NC I have travelled that portion of the icw with 8ft 2″ of draft from 2000 thru 2004 with a 456 B. Farther south you would have a lot of problems. I now travel that area with 411 B but only draw 5 ft. Best of luck.
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Nov 15, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments
Five-Year Study on Florida’s Red Tide
Here is an interesting article on red tide which had a recent bloom in the Big Bend region of the Gulf, see /?p=144423.
FWC, partners unlock some mysteries behind red tide in 5-year study
Last month, researchers at the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) published new findings on Florida’s red tide organism, Karenia brevis, in a special issue of the scientific journal Harmful Algae. This publication is the culmination of an unprecedented collaboration on red tide research in the Gulf of Mexico led by the FWC’s Fish and Wildlife Research Institute (FWRI) and funded by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
For more on this study, go to:
http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/FLFFWCC/bulletins/dbfa20
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Nov 14, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments
Cruisers’ Thanksgivings along the Waterway
Our good friend, Mike Ahart, Editor of Waterway Guide, has written an excellent article on the wonderful practice of a number of marinas along the Intracoastal who offer a Thanksgiving dinner for weary cruisers. Mike has graciously allowed us to share that story with you:
A tradition since the first landing – Cruiser’s Thanksgiving
Thanks Mike!
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Nov 14, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 1 Comment 34.2128,-77.8129999
Reminder: Bridge Boards Indicate Least Vertical Clearance and Charts Indicate Maximum Clearance

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This reminder comes to us from Skipper Rohrkemper who relates a bridge incident in which the bridge tender incorrectly stated that the clearance boards were reading the vertical clearance at the center of the span. USCG Officer Rousseau’s response is quite clear: clearance boards give the least vertical clearance available, normally found at the outer edge of the span, and charts indicate the maximum vertical clearance above MHHW at the center of the span. With a closed vertical clearance of 20ft, the Wrightsville Beach Bascule Bridge crosses the AICW at Statute Mile 283, southwest of marker #125.
Approaching the Wrightsville Beach/ S.R. 74 bridge southbound on 10/30/2014, at high tide at Masonboro Inlet, the clearance signboard read 14′. The bridge tender confirmed that the signboard was measuring clearance at the center of the span and not at the lower shoulders. A December, 2013 version of Chart 11541 lists the clearance as 20′ (at center). Was the bridge tender wrong? Tide was high but not 6′ above MHHW.
Paul Rohrkemper
Larry,
I have looked into the Wrightsville Beach question. The clearance boards are most likely reading correctly. The gauges show the vertical clearance of the bridge at the lowest point across the channel 13.5 feet at MHW (outer edges of channel). The Chart shows the clearance of the bridge at the center of the spans. We normally do not mark this clearance on the chart. It is normally what the clearance is at the lowest part of the bridge across the channel 13.5 feet at MHW. Probably at some point in the past it was requested to mark the center and highest point (This point would only be in that exact spot of the bridge). Legally the bridge owner still needs to show the clearance gauges for the lowest clearance across the channel. NCDOT is going to check to make sure the boards are reading correctly. Hope this clears up this question.
Regards,
Jim Rousseau
Bridge Program Manager
United States Coast Guard District 5
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s North Carolina Bridge Directory Listing For SR 74 Bridge
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of SR 74 Bridge
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Larry Shick - November 15, 2014 - 8:34 am

Ah, but when the water level cuts through the center of the digits, is it indicating 13′ or 12’6″? Some clearance boards have large index marks at the center of the digits, leading one to interpret mid-digit water level as the even-foot clearance. Some only have tiles with numbers: if I need 64 feet (for example), do I need the water to be at the bottom of the 64 tile, or at its center? Or does it vary?
Sorry if this is a duplicate–flakey connection.
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Nov 10, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 34.2549,-77.9489999
Patricia Bennett Honored, Bennett Brothers Yachts,off the AICW on Cape Fear River, in Wilmington, NC

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Patricia Bennett, President of Bennett Brothers Yachts, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, has been honored in this article by Ellen Honey in Marina Life Magazine.
Women in Boating
INTERVIEWS OF WOMEN IN THE MARINE INDUSTRY
Written by Ellen Honey
Once a rarity in the marine industry, women now often play a central role, whether that’s at the wheelhouse, in the galley, or at the helm of the entire operation. Some arrived at their position via family, others through serendipity or determination, but they are all passionate about their boating careers.
PATRICIA BENNETT
President, Bennett Brothers Yachts
Patricia assumed full responsibility at Bennett Brothers Yachts and Cape Fear Marina in Wilmington, North Carolina, when her husband and partner, Paul Bennett, passed away in 2007.
Tricia is used to preparing for hurricanes, but nothing could have prepared her for the recession that swept the industry in 2008. Conservative by nature, she was able to survive and grow, and is optimistic about the current uptick in the marine industry. Customers aren’t just doing necessary mechanical repairs but are now redoing their hulls. Recent projects include repainting a 72-foot Marlow Explorer and the Wilmington Fire Department fireboat.
Tricia has no plans to slow down. She labels herself a `demanding leader’ who expects 110 percent from employees because, `I give 110 percent every day.’ Two of her four children are interested in helping her further develop and enhance the marina and boatyard, located in one of the fastest growing areas in the country. No doubt, this energetic woman will keep pace with the growth of her surroundings.
For more on this story, go to: http://www.marinalife.com/magazine/403-women-in-boating
Click Here To View the North Carolina Cruisers’ Net Marina Directory Listing For Bennett Brothers Yachts/Cape Fear Marina
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Bennett Brothers Yachts/Cape Fear Marina
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Nov 6, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 29.9084,-81.29339999
New Lighted Red Marker in St. Augustine Inlet, near AICW Statute Mile 776

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Because of its shifting channel and the required frequent dredging, Green Only markers in the St. Augustine Inlet have sometimes been a source of confusion. This new lighted red marker will be a big improvement. Our thanks to Commissioner Jay Bliss for his Port Meeting report and to Chuck Baier and Susan Landry for the article below by Stuart Korfhage in the St. Augustine Record.
Selected proceedings at yesterday’s Oct 14 2014 Port meeting: USCG Chief Bosun Mike Tomasi reported our USCG has finally been able to allocate a Large LIGHTED RED channel marker #6 for the StAugustine Inlet channel. Until last Thursday, mariners entering our inlet at night had no red lighted markers, only green ones. Thus a few unintentional landings on Porpoise point over the years’¦.
Jay Bliss
New illuminated marker should make for safer boating in St. Augustine Inlet
Posted: November 5, 2014 – 10:54pm
By STUART KORFHAGE
stuart.korfhage@staugustine.com
Master mariners might still use the stars to chart their course, but boaters slipping through the St. Augustine Inlet at night now have an even better aid.
Last month, at the urging of the St. Augustine Port, Waterway and Beach District, the U.S. Coast Guard added a lighted red buoy (No. 6) to keep boaters from accidentally running aground at Porpoise Point.
There are already reflective red markers and lighted green markers that show boaters the safest way to enter the Inlet. But without the illuminated red marker, night trips by those unfamiliar with the area have led to costly failures to navigate the Inlet.
`The Inlet is not a good inlet to go in and out of without local knowledge, and it’s more challenging at night,’ said Sam Adukiewicz, harbormaster at the St. Augustine Municipal Marina. `The new marker will definitely make it better.’
Commissioner Jay Bliss of the St. Augustine Port, Waterway and Beach District said one of the dangers of the old setup was that captains would sometimes line up between the green markers of the Inlet and illuminated marker No. 60.
The problem with red No. 60 is that it’s actually in the Intracoastal Waterway, not the Inlet. And lining up with the Inlet greens and the ICW No. 60 will put a boat right into the sand.
`You see green on the left, and on the right side you don’t see squat at night,’ Bliss said of entering the Inlet before the new marker. `A lot of people have wound up landing at Porpoise Point, and it’s been a pretty tricky maneuver.’
For more of the article, see: http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2014-11-05/new-illuminated-marker-should-make-safer-boating-st-augustine-inlet#.VFvT_vnF9Ko
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of St. Augustine Inlet
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Nov 5, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 1 Comment 33.052,-79.50249999
Another Report of Shallow Water South of McClellanville, , AICW Statute Mile 433

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This report from Peg and Jim Healy confirms other recent reports of shallow water through this perennial Problem Stretch (/?p=145005). SSECN’s recommendation of a mid to high tide passage is still valid!
Sanctuary and crew came southbound through McClellanville, SC between 11h45 – 12h15 yesterday, Monday, November 3, 2014. Our Garmin Tide Almanac and Tides and Currents Android app showed us at +1′ on the rising tide.
Based on what we saw, there could be areas less than 4′ at MLLW, and certainly during periods of celestial (spring) lows. Cruiser’s must be attentive through this area.
Details: from G’35’ all the way through, and 1/2 mile south of, R’40’, we saw depths of 6′ or less, and we saw two spots of less than 5′. I do not have a recommended path through the area. We proceeded slowly, and slightly drifted back and forth across the centerline of the channel looking for best depths, but we didn’t find anything that would be helpful to pass along. It seems to be a lumpy, mud bottom.
At low tide, this area will be difficult for deep draft boats. I would say this is very much like the Little Mud River as a significant trouble spot on the A-ICW, except it’s longer than the Little Mud River (or seemed so).
We also saw a sailboat aground at Dewees Creek, but that was a nav error, as he was definitely out of the channel.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For the Waterway south of McClellanville to Awendaw Creek
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
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Ron - November 5, 2014 - 10:56 am

We came through this area in mid July, 2014 and found very shallow water as well. Of course it was dead low tide so that would make a difference. We anchored for the night in Awendaw Creek (a great anchorage) and had more water the next morning. We only draw 3 1/2 feet so we didn’t hit bottom still, it’s a bit stressful hearing the alarm sounding every few minutes.
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Nov 5, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 1 Comment 32.785,-79.819999
Depth Report from Isle of Palms, Problem Stretch, AICW Statute Mile 459

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Our thanks to the Skippers Healy for their report from this Problem Stretch. The 2.5ft depths referred to came to us in September of 2013 from Mark and Diana Doyle (/?p=122644), so it is possible that shoals have shifted since that time. However, as recent as May of this year, there have been groundings reported at Marker #117 (/?p=141177). No dredging has been done through this section. If you draw 5ft or less, Skipper Healy’s depth readings are good news, but slow and cautious is still a good recommendation.
Sanctuary and crew came through Mt. Pleasant southbound (Isle of Palms to the Ben Sawyer Bridge) between 13h15 – 13h40 yesterday, Monday, November 3, 2014. Our Garmin Tide Almanac and our “Tides and Currents” Android app reported +2.8 ft at 13h15.
Summary: Slightly favor red, control depth at +2.8 ft was about 8 ft, so no worse than 5.2 ft at MLLW.
Details: (Southbound)
G’117’ – 18′ mid channel
Mt. Pleasant Bridge – 12.1′ mid span
R’118’ – 11.6′ mid channel
Swinton Creek – 8.1′ mid channel
G’117A’ – 9.7′ mid channel
Coneh Creek – 8.4′ favor red
G’119’/Inlet Creek – 8.2′ favor red
G’121’ – 10′ favor red
It seems to me I have seen reports of 2.5′ at MLLW, but on the path we followed, that would not have been the case.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, southbound at Charleston, SC
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For the AICW North of Ben Sawyer Bridge to Isle of Palms Bridge
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
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Chuck baier - November 5, 2014 - 12:01 pm

A common problem along this stretch is the side currents, especially at Inlet Creek. The current can quickly set the boat out of the deeper water without notice if someone isn’t looking both ahead and astern to be sure the boat is still in the channel. Looking only ahead will give the impression that you are still in the channel when in actuality, the boat has been pushed into shallow water. Chuck and Susan, Trawler Beach House
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Nov 4, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 2 Comments 30.67,-81.4689999
Sweet News from Fernandina, FL, AICW Statute Mile 716

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My family has been vacationing in Fernandina for more than 50 years and it gets better every year, as Skipper Dammeyer confirms with his discovery of a great bakery. And a berth at Fernandina Harbor Marina, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, puts you right in the heart of the wonderful things to do and see in this special port.
Larry,
Just made a great find. The favorite bakery of passing cruisers up Center Street closed a couple of years ago, but a new one just opened 4th of July in Fernandina. Nana Teresa’s Bake Shop had lots of treats and sweets. Open from 10-7, and located at the corner of 5th and Ash, one block South of Center street, around the corner from the court house. The crew at Timoti’s Fish Shop sent us over there for desert. Cruisers with a sweet tooth stopping at Fernandina will find it worth the walk from the marina.
Best,
Rick Dammeyer
Promise
Catalina 445
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Eastern Florida Marina Directory Listing For Fernandina Harbor Marina
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Fernandina Harbor Marina
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Winston Fowler - November 5, 2014 - 11:03 pm

This is a great town served by a great marina and staff. We always stay at Fernandina Beach Marina when traveling the AICW. It is the Annapolis of Florida and the Beaufort SC of Florida too. LOVE IT and glad to have another reason to stop in and visit the new bakery.
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Dennis JAY - November 4, 2014 - 5:43 pm

Fernandina Beach is one of our favorites places to stop on the way south. Stayed one year for five months. Will look for the bakery shop. My favorite place in Fernandina — O’Kanes Irish Pub — closed down last year. Best Irish bar anywhere.
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Nov 3, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 36.5054,-76.35519999
Southbound Voyage Through Dismal Swamp Canal, AICW Alternate Route

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This lovely photo-log of a voyage through Dismal Swamp Canal, sent to us by close friend of Claiborne Young, Ed Kukla, is taken from Ed’s blog site, Cruising Aboard Freedom. Traveling south, the Dismal Swamp Canal route exits the Waterway westward immediately south of the I-64 fixed bridge at statute mile 7.1. Along the canal is A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, the Dismal Swamp Welcome Center. Sit back and enjoy the ride…
Not So Dismal
Heading south from Norfolk, VA to the Albemarle Sound of NC can be accomplished two ways on the ICW (intracoastal waterway). In the past we have taken the Virginia cut. This is a straight forward route with just one small lock that raises you less than a foot. It is longer in distance but shorter in time. The Dismal Swamp Canal is the other option. It was constructed in the 1790s. George Washington was a staunch supporter and investor of this hand dug canal. We decided to take the swamp this time to enjoy the scenery and history.

Here we are approaching a lock. The lock tenders also have to operate the lift bridge for you.

The canal, we were told, has a minimum of 7 foot depth down the middle. This was true except for some of those logs laying on the bottom. We managed to thump into a few of them.
You can see some logs along the lush shoreline.

We even saw a little bit of fall color.

The trees would overhang the canal in areas. We had to take care not to clip them with our mast.

The canal is very narrow, sufficient for the 1800s but a little tight for modern day boats.

In most areas there is no room to pass other boats so you follow the same ones into the locks and your speed is set by the slowest boat in front of you.

The slow speed was no problem for us but the power boat behind us was not very happy.

The ICW is known for its tannin stained water that stains the hull of your vessel. The Dismal Swamp has the darkest water we’ve seen…..coffee?

We really enjoyed this picturesque route. Will we do it again next year? Stay tuned.
Ed Kukla
S/V Freedom, Endeavor 42
Click Here To View the North Carolina Cruisers’ Net Marina Directory Listing For the Dismal Swamp Canal Welcome Center
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the Dismal Swamp Canal Welcome Center
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Nov 2, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 31.1714,-81.42499999
Tall Masts: Use Caution at Torras Causeway Bridge, AICW Statute Mile 674

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Skipper Dammeyer offers good advice concerning air clearance on fixed bridges: check local knowledge. Several factors – tide, wind, excessive rainfall – can affect clearance above the water surface and height boards may not always be accurate. The F. J. Torras Causeway, Mackay River Bridge crosses the ICW at Statute Mile 674, south of unlighted daybeacon #242.
Larry
At MM 674.5 we arrived at the Torras Causeway Bridge about an hour before High Tide to find the South Bound bridge board missing. A trawler reported that the N.B. Bridge Board read only 63′ so we circled with our 63′ 10″ air draft and went sight seeing for three hours.
When we finally went through the N.B. Board read 65′. The dock crew at Morningstar said there had been some confusion over clearance as one
of the boards had slipped, but we are not clear as to which one. Tall masts are advised to check local knowledge if approaching at or near high tide. We’ve waited for tide to fall at this bridge on previous trips.
Rick Dammeyer
Promise
Catalina 445
31 10.282 North/081 25.494 West
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Nov 1, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 5 Comments 33.9171,-78.02829999
Advice Requested on Wind and Tide in the Cape Fear River, Southport to Wilmington, NC

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Our recommendation to Skipper Harllee is to call Southport Marina, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, located just west of the Cape Fear River along the northern banks of the Waterway hard by flashing daybeacon #2A. Their daily Weather and Navigation Briefings (see /?p=144528) more than qualify them to provide needed advice and up-to-date information on the Cape Fear river. However, I’m sure Skipper Harllee would welcome your advice as well!
My husband and I have cruised on the Cape Fear River several times from Southport, NC to the Wilmington area in our 27 foot Ranger Tug (single screw) with no problems. But yesterday (Thursday, October 30) we faced confused seas and had difficulty with the run from Snows Cut south to Southport. The wind was only around 12 to 13 knots, but it was from an unusual direction, from the northwest. We tried to time our run for slack current, but obviously we miss calculated and had a following wind and we were going into the current. Very uncomfortable, rough chop and we were glad we finally made it to Southport. Since we plan more trips on the Cape Fear River, does anyone have any advice regarding how to time our trip to match the current and the wind? How do we get accurate information on the Cape Fear current? Thanks so much!
Jo Ann
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s North Carolina Marina Directory Listing For Southport Marina
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Winston Fowler -  November 5, 2014 - 6:58 pm

Joann –
Getting the correct tidal information is one of the keys for sure. I am not sure what the best tide station is for that area, but Southport, NC should be okay. We have experienced your similar conditions and it seems that tides in the their final stages produce much stronger flows than at the beginning. So the tide could have still be in its final stage of flood and in conflict with the wind and that would be the strongest tidal flow, hence the aggressive chop.
We too are retired and having no schedule is in our favor for sure.
Try mid-tidal ranges if time allows for your cruise or at least when the winds are calmer and maybe even from a direction that gives you some “leeward” protection.
I hope your husband recovers and continues to enjoy boating, as it is and can be such fun for all.
Thanks again for using the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net JoAnn. Do stay in touch.
Winston
Reply to Winston

Jo Ann Harllee -  November 5, 2014 - 6:55 pm

Winston, thanks for your advice. Since we are retired we have some flexibility on timing. So yesterday with the wind from the north we hit Snows Cut around high tide, thinking that with a dropping tide we would be better off going down the Cape Fear. But it did not work. At what tide level would have it been better for us? And what tide chart is best to use for the Cape Fear anyway when you first come out of Snows Cut? Sorry to be so dense, but it was such an unpleasant experience we would rather avoid it if we can (or I am afraid that our tendancy will be to just use the boat as a condo and never go out, my husband actually hurt his neck and shoulder on the ride down the river so it will be a while before we go out anyway) .
Thanks again, Jo Ann
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Winston Fowler -  November 5, 2014 - 6:54 pm

JoAnn – we used to keep our boat just north of Wrightsville.
Have had all kinds of experiences along the course you described.
The current is always flowing out, the tides will have an impact to reduce flow or cause it to be static. Winds play a big role here if tides flow and winds are in conflict…this can cause nasty chop, especially true at the beginning of flood or near end of outgoing if winds are contradictory to flow.
And there seems to always be a “first time” for most any and every thing when on the water.
Glad you are safe. The vessels can usually take much more than those of us on board.
Best to you and thanks for using SSECN.
Winston Fowler-Sent from my iPad
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John Kettlewell -  November 1, 2014 - 5:16 pm

Having done the Cape Fear River numerous times in atrocious conditions the obvious answer is to not be out there when there is a lot of wind against the current. Most slower vessels prefer to go with a favorable current, but it is worth it to wait at Carolina Beach or Southport if the wind is going to be up and against your favorable current. The good news is that in the fall when headed south the worst winds tend to be from the north so should be behind you with a favorable current.
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David Craft -  November 1, 2014 - 3:16 pm

When the wind and the tide oppose like that for such a long distance those are the condition you will get.
I made that same run into a 30 mile an hour headwind with opposing Tide and three-foot chop. It was not fun.
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Oct 30, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 1 Comment 31.8609,-81.08369999
More Shallow Water Reported at Hell Gate, AICW Problem Stretch, Statute Mile 602

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The AICW follows the short and narrow, man-made canal known as Hell Gate between the Vernon and Ogeechee Rivers. These waters have been an “AICW Problem Stretch” for years and mid to high tide is recommended for vessels drawing 5ft or more.
SSECN is glad to hear that Skipper Dammeyer and our friends, the Salemnos, stopped at Sunbury Crab Company Marina, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR! which lies along the western shores of the Medway River, on the charted Sunbury Channel, north of Dickinson Creek
Larry,
We passed through Hell Gate this morning about 2 1/2 hours after low. Favoring green 89 by about a boat length we saw 6 1/2 to 7′ for just a few yards and then the water deepened again. On the way in I tried to cut behind the shoal at the Northern approach as marked on the chart, but the water went to 8′ and less, so I turned around,
went back to the river and made the turn just before the north green in plenty of water. This seemed to be consistent
with what boats in front of me were reporting.
Rick
PS we just tied up with Carmen and Cathy at Sunbury Crab.
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For Hell Gate
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Jim Healy - November 7, 2014 - 9:54 am

Sanctuary and crew came through Hell Gate yesterday, 11/6/2014, at 06h30. The chart plotter almanac said we were at +8.4 ft on a +9.1 ft tide. The tidal range was a celestial range around the full moon.
On both sides of G”89” in the cut, we saw depths of 11.4 ft. At MLLW, that would be 3.0 ft. Yesterday with negative spring tide, it would have been only 2 ft.
We did not do the Little Mud complex as we would have arrived there at low tide. Instead, we went out at St. Catherine’s Sound and came back in at St. Simons Sound. To avoid the shoaling on the shelf, we ran about 6 miles offshore in acceptable seas of 2’ – 3’. It was a good alternative of 64 StM, and put us in Brunswick at 15h30. Fuel at Ocean Petroleum is $3.04 per gallon, including tax.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary, southbound at Brunswick, GA
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
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Oct 30, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 35.5325,-76.61429999
Update from River Forest Manor and Marina, Belhaven, NC, AICW Statute Mile 135.5

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One of the oldest and most beautifully located marinas in NC, River Forest Manor and Marina, under new ownership, will begin hotel and dock renovations in December after the Fall migration has ended. Until then, they do have fuel and transient slips. River Forest Marina is located on the northeastern shores of Pantego Creek, just northwest of the creek’s breakwater enclosed entrance.
River Forest Marina has been sold and is now River Forest Manor and Marina, #252-943-0030. They do sell fuel but are renovating the marina and hotel. They will start construction on the docks after the traffic goes through about December 15th. Their email is unc1975@gmail.com.
River Forest Marina is still operating but only for boat services [including transient slips] and repairs.
Kaye Adams
And Dockmaster Henry Boyd provided more details:
Dear Kaye,
Thanks for your phone call and email. On 10/23/2014, the historic River Forest Manor and Marina was purchased by a 10 member LLC with the purpose of renovating the existing facilities. Our first priority is the Marina building and docks. Construction began on 10/27/2014. We are upgrading the Marina dock house with a new exterior, including new windows and doors, new decking, renovating the bathrooms /showers, marina office, and adding laundry equipment. The main dock is operational, but upgrades will be added in the next several weeks. Both diesel fuel and gas are available now together with Wi-Fi and city water. Our gas is non-ethanol 89 octane. 30/50/ and 100 amp electrical service are available. Pump out should be operational by next week. Our goal is to provide excellent service and value for our guests. The 10 LLC members have a connection to Belhaven either by living here or are from here.Thus our reputation is on the line. Our new telephone number is 252-943-0030 and my cell is 252-943-1937. Call ahead for fuel pricing, We want to be competitive. Current dockage is $1.50 a foot. Long term dockage will be available soon, once renovations are complete to our second dock.
As a further note, Belhaven is the birthplace of the Intercoastal waterway. (see your article: /belhaven ). This past September was the 86th anniversary. Belhaven has had an annual celebration beginning last year with plans to commemorate annually.
Thanks,
Henry Boyd
Dockmaster/member
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Oct 27, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 1 Comment 31.0462,-81.42259999
Upgrades at Jekyll Harbor Marina, AICW Statute Mile 684.5

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Jekyll Harbor Marina, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR!, lies along the easterly banks of the AICW’s passage through Jekyll Creek, immediately south of the 65-foot fixed bridge. All Waterway cruisers, north or southbound, will pass Jekyll Harbor Marina. Our thanks to Sonny Reeves for bringing us this good news from Jekyll Harbor Marina. Those golf carts will be perfect for Jekyll touring!
Hi Capt Larry,
The dockmaster Scott Todd @ Jekyll Harbor Marina has worked hard with the owners to get two golf carts for boaters to use on the island. These are excellent vehicles to visit the Historic district and the shopping center on the island.
In addition a new set of washer and dryers are now in our renovated laundry room. The Showers have been tiled and updated. Very nice and just in time for South bound cruisers to stop over on Georgia’s Jekyll Island. With 30 miles of bike trails you can ride one of the marina’s free and new bicycles to the beach, the forest or river view trails in safety off the roads.Enjoy!
Sonny
1 Harbor Rd
Jekyll Island Georgia 31527
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James Newsome - October 29, 2014 - 6:17 am

I highly recommend at stopover at Jekyll Harbor Marina for cruisers traveling the ICW. Located directly on the ICW, the marina is a very convenient stopover for the weary traveler looking for a couple days of R&R.
If you haven’t visited Jekyll Island before you’ve missed a real treat. The beaches and Historical District are less than a mile away, easily within walking and biking distance. Or why not try one of the marina’s new complementary golf carts and explore the island. Jekyll Island is an unique coastal treasure. In Georgia it’s called the “nearest faraway place.”
The onsite restaurant “684” (formerly SeaJay’s) is under new ownership with a new chef. Two weeks ago I was traveling up the ICW from Fernandina Beach to St. Simon’s Island with another boat. We contacted Meagan at Jekyll Harbor Marina a couple days ahead to make sure it was OK for us to tie up at the transient dock over lunch hour. She could not have been more accommodating and the restaurant easily handled our large group. BTW, the food at “684” is excellent!
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Oct 26, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 3 Comments 33.7688,-77.94189999
Question about Frying Pan Shoals, Cape Fear, NC

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This reader is seeking advice about navigation Frying Pan Shoals from east to west at the large shoal off the tip of Cape Fear. If you have experience in those waters, let us hear from you!
Hi! I have a quick question that I am hoping that you can answer. We currently dock a 20 foot boat in Wrightsville Beach. We are looking to move to an older 45-50 foot Viking by July of 2015. At that time we may move to Southport area as our hailing port. I am originally form up north and still learning the NC waters. Is it possible to navigate across the FP shoals at the 3 mile line or do you need to be closer to the FP Shoals Slue or the territorial line. Looking at a chart is appears that the 3 mile line depth is a bit variable.
Thank you in advance for your time reviewing this note.
Regards, Tom
Thomas N. Denny
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Capt. Drew Elliott -  November 6, 2014 - 4:40 pm

I just went through the Slue the other day and it is an easy navigational route. I went through with an 85 foot cruiser. I like to stay outside if possible, love to see the sunrise and set while at sea. All of the marine life too. Do not like the ditch unless it is rough out.
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Van and Emily Beck -  October 27, 2014 - 8:46 pm

ICW is a very nice run from Wrightsville to Carolina Beach to the Cape Fear River then Southport. 24 miles I think. A lot shorter and both the Waterway and River are beautiful thru this stretch. Only go outside to sail with prevailing wind.
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Wes Abell -  October 26, 2014 - 3:45 pm

October 26 at 3:24pm
the Slue is the only way to safely cross, why not go south on the ICW?
Wes Abell
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Oct 25, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments
Still Another Alternative to the Ashepoo-Coosaw Cutoff, AICW Statute Mile 517
We have had lots of discussion (/?p=141157) on bypassing Ashepoo-Coosaw Cutoff by heading southeast to Combahee Bank then northwest to return to the Waterway south of the Cutoff. Now Skipper Dammeyer offers another alternative by heading almost due west from Combahee Bank into Morgan River to SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, Dataw Island Marina. Slipper Dammeyer and I had a chance to compare navigation notes this week just before he headed south from Charleston. If Dataw Island Marina is in your float plan, this is a logical choice of routes.
Larry,
Thanks for the encouragement to take the alternative to Ashepoo Coosaw cut. We arrived at Fenwick [Cut] about 2:30 or a couple of hours before low. We motored out and down the Ashepoo in calm seaway, went below the Combahee Bank and across St Helena Sound all the way to green 11 below pelican bank and found 25-30 ft of water to turn up Morgan Creek to Dataw Marina. Saving us from having to motor up the ICW and then crossing at Parrot Creek.
Thanks again,
Rick Dammeyer
S/V Promise, Catalina 445, 5ft draft
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Click Here For The Cruisers’ Net’s South Carolina Marina Directory Listing For Dataw Island Marina
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Oct 25, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments
Shark Repellent Developed at Florida Keys Community College, Key West
This article from The Associate Press is for our scuba diving friends and those of us who still insist on diving under to clean the props!

NOAA officials praise shark repellent developed at Florida Keys Community College
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
First Posted: October 25, 2014 – 3:01 am
KEY WEST, Florida ‘” Federal officials are praising a shark repellent developed at the Florida Keys Community College.
The project was funded by a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration grant. In a recent report to Congress, NOAA officials highlighted the repellent among efforts in coastal communities to reduce the numbers of sharks caught in commercial seafood harvests.
For the rest of the story, go to: http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/bb8904b720b547539448b8aaee993ae1/FL–Keys-Shark-Repellent/
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Oct 25, 2014by: Larry Dorminy 2 Comments
Bahamas Anchorage Fees?
Our thanks to friends Chuck and Susan for sending this article by Natario McKensie in Tribune242. From the Bahamas Trust Chairman’s remarks, you can see that he doesn’t think much of transients from the US.
Could we soon be paying to anchor in the Bahamas? It’s not as far fetched as you might think.
Chuck Baier and Susan Landry
Trust Chief: Anchorage Fees Must Be Nationwide
By NATARIO McKENZIE
Tribune Business Reporter
The Bahamas National Trust’s (BNT) chairman has called for anchorage fees to be imposed in mooring spots throughout the Bahamas.
Addressing the ninth annual Exuma Business Outlook conference, Eric Carey noted that while the BNT had implemented anchorage fees at the Exuma Land & Sea Park to cover its annual operating expenses and upgrade infrastructure, the initiative was one he believed should be implemented in other areas.
`We need to think about doing these sorts of initiatives in other areas like Elizabeth Harbour off of Black Point, Staniel Cay and Nassau Harbour,’ he said.
`They come down there they anchor and they pay absolutely nothing and they come fully stocked. Half of the time they don’t even spend $5 in the Bahamas and what do they eat? Our fish,’ said Mr Carey.
For the rest of the article, go to:
http://www.tribune242.com/news/2014/oct/24/trust-chief-anchorage-fees-must-be-nationwide/
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Chuck Baier and Susan landry - October 27, 2014 - 7:47 pm

We would like to send out a big thank you to everyone that has rallied and responded to our initial posting of this article. It shows that the boating community can come together and make a difference. We just received this reply…..” Executive Director of the Bahamas National Trust (BNT), Eric Carey, extended his sincere apologies to all boaters that visit The Bahamas year after year today.
During the Exuma Business Outlook forum Director Carey answered a question from the floor that painted annual boaters in a less than flattering light. He and the BNT Executive team acknowledge that comments such as those should not have been made considering that the yachting; sailing and small craft boaters who visit the islands have a significant impact and role in the Bahamian economy, tourism and environmental longevity.
Since its inception in 1958 the Exuma Cays Land and Sea Park has been a premier anchoring location for boaters who visit The Bahamas. Recently the BNT introduced anchorage fees due to the increased annual operational cost of repairs and upkeep of the Bahamas’ oldest National park. In Mr. Carey’s passion to defend his organization’s need to increase income to support the Park’s operations, he suggested that the residents of Elizabeth Harbour install moorings to help with their efforts to clean up and restore their harbor. Some residents made comments to the effect that some boaters were not willing to pay for moorings. Carey unfortunately went on record to support the comments and agreed that some of these boaters do not contribute significantly to the economy.
“The comments which I made at the Exuma Business Outlook Conference are not the views of the Trust,” noted Carey. “We welcome all visitors and most importantly boaters in The Bahamas – not only to the Exuma Cays Land and Sea Park but throughout The Bahamas.”
Carey continued “international boaters are significant contributors to our economy and specifically to the more boutique islands which are not visited my mainstream tourists. In addition hundreds are annual supporters of the Trust through membership, valued Support Fleet members, the payment of mooring fees or by donating much needed personal resources to the protection of the marine environment. I offer my heartfelt apologies and hope that all boaters will continue to visit The Bahamas.”
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Scoobert Diver - October 27, 2014 - 12:03 pm

What do they expect when a gallon of milk costs $9, or they charge for water. they need to work on bringing costs of basics down, then people would provision there. Otherwise I think we do in fact spend money, just not at the grocery store.
Scoobert Diver
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Oct 24, 2014by: Larry Dorminy No Comments 32.4197,-80.65899999
More Good Words for Ladys Island Marina, AICW Statute Mile 536.5, in Beaufort, SC

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Over the last three years, Ladys Island Marina has been undergoing big improvements in the marina portion of this property under the direction of owner, Kelly Ryan, and these improvements have been confirmed by the recent positive comments SSECN has received. Ladys Island Marina is located in Factory Creek just east of Ladys Island Bridge.
Thanx, Larry, that spot [Jekyll Creek] has been troublesome forever. I’m glad you found our observations useful; we’ve gotten so much assistance from this site over the years that its wonderful to be in a position to pay it back, and keep Claiborne’s vision alive.
BTW, can’t say enough good things about Lady’s Island marina (SM536). Quiet, well-maintained, many services within easy walking distance (groceries, hardware store, liquor store, nice bakery and many restaurants, etc). Very accomodating management/dockmaster Steve is going cruising, new dockmaster TJ started on Monday and he’s clearly committed to carrying on the cruiser-friendly tradition. Loaner car and/or bikes. A ***woodshop*** for doing boat projects!!! Longish walk or short bike ride across the swing bridge to historic downtown.
We’re waiting on a part for our autopilot, expected in next Friday. We’ll be staying another week, then if weather permits we’ll be doing a single overnight and bypassing Georgia.
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s South Carolina Marina Directory Listing For Ladys Island Marina
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