Wilson Key Anchorage - Click for Chartview
Wilson Key Anchorage lies off the eastern half of the Whale Harbor Channel, and is entered from the Florida Keys Inside route.
Recently spent the night here and found it to be a very nice anchorage. Very well protected and quiet. I found the bottom to be grassy but got a good set on the anchor.
Dan
Stock Island Marina Village - Click for Chartview
Although Stock Island Marina has been operating for several years, the completed marina village has just had its official grand opening. The marina, along Shrimp Road, occupies the westerly shores of Safe Harbor, north of marker #5.
The facility consists of 128 floating docks, a dog park, community garden, high-speed fuel pump, gym, laundry facilities, bathrooms with showers, lounge area, bar and restaurant, pool, nature trails, retail fish house and an 80-room ’boutique fish camp.’
For the complete article as posted on KeysInfoNet, go to:
http://www.keysnet.com/2014/01/25/494261/stock-island-marina-village-now.html
While a very nice, much needed Marina in the Key West Area, Cruisers should be aware that although the floating concrete docks are wide and convenient, there are no pilings between the slips. Docking in a stiff wind could be challenging if the wind is blowing your vessel away from the finger pier and into the adjoining vessel. The slips are basically `side to’ !
Rich D
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Stock Island Marina Village
If you have any recent information about NC’s log requirement, let us hear from you. Apropos to this discussion is the new Key West regulation requiring a pumpout log (/?p=133955). And apropos to both situations is this ongoing discussion on Trawler Forum concerning a pumpout log requirement – or lack thereof – in NC. Got to: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s27/nc-pumpout-log-13076.html
Key West – Click for Chartview
Captain Landry’s comment is in response to an article by Gwen Filosa that appeared January 16, 2014 in KeyNews.com, Florida Keys and Key West’s Daily Online News. While the search for cleaner waters is admirable, proof of pumpout is often difficult to provide. The new regulation does specify “liveaboards” and may not affect transients. See /?p=131066 for an earlier posting on this issue.
The [Key West] city’s Bight Management Board unanimously approved Wednesday a new policy requiring liveaboards using the historic seaport’s dinghy dock to show proof they are having sewage pumpout service done regularly. http://keysnews.com/node/52935
Susan Landry
I don’t have a pumpout log.
A good time to sing the praises of my Nature’s Head. [Composting toilet]
Tom Murphy
This law raises a lot of questions. How are you supposed to provide proof of pumpout if you have just arrived from an offshore run from Mexico? What if you don’t pumpout because you have a composting head, an incinerating toilet, or use a porta pottie? What if your boat doesn’t have toilet facilities and you want to dinghy in? What if the place you pumped out is free, is not attended, and offers no proof of pumpout? Is an acceptable pumpout log just notes that the owner keeps? I had some friends who lived on a large steel trawler with a 400-gallon tank and they pumped out once a season or so, but usually they just headed offshore and dumped legally. What are they supposed to do?
John Kettlewell
Apropos to this proposal to is an ongoing discussion on Trawler Forum concerning a pumpout log requirement – or lack thereof – in NC. Got to: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s27/nc-pumpout-log-13076.html
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Key West
Captains Lloyd and McKane offer good advice and recommendations of routes and stops on the sail from Marco Island to Marathon, as originally posted on the AGLCA Forum, www.greatloop.org.
From Sanibel Island I usually head for Naples, then you can take an inside route behind Marco Island. Charted depth is 4′ but depth increases by 3′ at high tide. Pay attention after Bear Point bridge as daymark colors switch sides. A red daymark appears to be out of position but it is not! Definitely stop at Goodland, an old-time fishing village that is a marked contrast to the rest of Marco Island. Calusa Island Marina is within walking distance of restaurants.
Some boaters recommend Everglades City but I usually go directly from Goodland to Little Shark River in Everglades National Park. This area of the park consists of mangrove Islands and hardwood hammocks, not acres of sawgrass that one usually associates with the Everglades. There is a very protected anchorage about 1.5 miles up river.
I recommend a direct route from Little Shark River to Seven Mile Bridge and stop at Marathon.
Alan Lloyd
For weather we used the National Weather Service’s graphical forecast tool for Florida (http://graphical.weather.gov/sectors/florida.php#tabs). It shows wind, wave, precip forecasts in an easy format.
As for going to Marathon, we overnighted at Middle Cape near Cape Sable which allowed us to get an early start. You get good protection and comfort when the wind is coming in from the E or NE. Some other loopers stayed at Snake River and left from there. In either case, stay inside the park’s waters as long as possible to stay away from the crab pot markers.
For the passage, it is pretty much a straight run from market MG off Cape Sable to John Sawyer Bank (about 20 NM). Actually it’s not really a straight run. Florida Bay is covered/littered/blanketed with crab pot markers and requires a lot of weaving left and right. Take extra care navigating this area. I spoke with 2 other loopers in the past month who
got their props fouled. We are staying at the Boathouse Marina and love it. It’s across from Vaca Cut, about 4 miles from Publix, etc. Have a safe voyage.
Bob & Loretta McKane
These three comments, originally posted on Cruisers’ Forum, http://www.cruisersforum.com/, relate more of the heavy-handed tactics inflicted upon legitimate cruisers by Florida’s Fish and Wildlife Commission (FWC) enforcement officers, similar to the recent problems in Boot Key Harbor in Marathon (see /?p=129366).
Florida Law Enforcement ie; FWC
1/15/14 – While waiting on south side of Hallandale Beach Blvd. bridge on ICW in Broward County, Fl. I observed FWC officers holding posistion on north side of bridge in the channel for a good 15-20 minutes as I waited for an opening. They proceeded south and passed me port to port south of the draw. As I was navigating to go through the draw they approached my 32′ sailboat as if to tie up to me and ignored the shiny registration sticker posted on the bow as required and asked me if I had current registration. I said yes but you can see me on the other side of this bridge! Well they got their attitude on and said we dictate how this is gonna go! I said I am a vessel of limited manueverability and need to proceed! One of the three smarted off Are you moving? I replied yes and he said well keep moving! So they followed me through the draw and once on the north side they came alongside, tying thier boat to mine and proceeded to show me who is the boss. When I had to go into the cabin to retrieve my paperwork one of officers stepped on my binoculars coming aboard my boat like he was affraid I was getting a weapon to use to defend me and my vessel from their harrasment! So while seeing my vessel out of control with these yahoos alongside I had to back down to stay in the channel. Well they didn’t like that either! When they had enough goading me (was really angry and let em know it for putting me and my vessel in jeopardy) they finally untied their boat from mine but not before my boat touched bottom! I cursed those SOB’s like any proper sailor would and backed off the bottom into the channel an “steamed” on my way north bound. I called the Broward County main office and registered a complaint and actually recieved a call back from a Lt. supervisor who took my report. Now I know there are far more worse horror stories of abuse by these misguided souls but I am ex Coast Guard and tug captain now disabled and on a oxygen breathing tank… and really? WTF? What a state Florida (or this country even) has become since was a kid in “the hammocks” on the Matanzas River Peace be with us all.
Woodymr
Unfortunately, this is just one more reason why, once I get the boat I’m buying out of Florida, we won’t ever be going back. Way too many horror stories about the FWC.
Kevin84
Hey, I had an FWC officer caution me about me Tartan 33 throwing an excessive wake. Keep in mind, my aging T-33 has an original engine, so we never turn over 2500. When I asked if he was joking, I got “the stare”. Dropped her to 2300 rpm.
I have a deep respect for all LEOs. But some seem to have suffered greatly from the closing of so many donut shops.
Snore
IMPORANT update as of 1/17/14
Frequent SSECN contributors, Captains Susan Landry and Chuck Baier, owners of Beach House Publications, publishers of “The Great Book of Anchorages,” (http://www.tgboa.com) have chimed in with a strong note sent to Mike Troelstrup, FWC Inspector General. Both Chuck and Susan’s original message and Mr. Troelstrup’s reply appear below:
Mr. Troelstrup, I have to wonder if you or anyone at the FWC has an idea as to how negative the actions of some FWC Officers are being viewed by the public. With the advent of the internet, missteps and abuse by your Officers quickly spread through out the country at lightning speed. I would suggest you give a close look at these two reports found on Claiborne Young’s website Cruiser’s Net. These reports are now also found on several other boating websites. The reports can be viewed here, /florida-law-enforcement-continues-to-aggravate-and-endanger-boaters/ and here, /129366/.
Cruiser’s Net is a very popular website visited by virtually millions of boaters each year. The common response to these kinds of reports are that Florida appears to be a boater unfriendly state and that many boaters will take their boats and the dollars they might have spent elsewhere. I can’t imagine that any state that so depends on tourism would want to perpetuate this kind of image. Perhaps someone could look int these practices and consider additional training for your on the water Officers. Sincerely,
Chuck Baier
Mr. Baier,
I am very appreciative of your email. I was unaware of this website and now have it bookmarked. I will also pass this on to my Director of Investigations, Amy Schmidt.
In response to Boot Key, we are aware of all the concerns and are monitoring this closely. It is my understanding that the regional office is trying to resolve these concerns which I fully support as the first step. We will follow-up on the status of this situation.
Thank you again for the information and always feel free to contact me with questions or concerns.
Respectfully,
Mike
Mike Troelstrup
FWC Inspector General
620 S. Meridian St
Tallahassee, Fl
Mike.Troelstrup@MyFWC.com
(850)488-6068
This addendum just received this morning, 1/18/14, from Captain Chuck Baier:
Claiborne,
There is a contact for reporting abuse or complaints against an FWC Officer The email contact is Mike Troelstrup, Inspector General at Mike.Troelstrup@MyFWC.com . I would urge anyone that considers an interaction from any FWC Officer less than professional, to report the incident.
Chuck
And, fellow nautical author, Captain Wally Moran, has sent this e-mail to the FWC Inspector General, and copies the SSECN:
Dear Sir:
I have just read a letter to you from Chuck Baier that was published in the Salty Southeast Cruisers Net, plus your reply to same (/florida-law-enforcement-continues-to-aggravate-and-endanger-boaters/). I have also read there, and elsewhere, of the problems in Marathon.
I want you to realize that I, and other boating journalists, are watching this situation closely. If situations such as this are not dealt with properly and the bully tactics of your officers are not restrained, you can expect to start seeing articles both online and in print about the behaviour of your officers.
As the son of a lifetime LEO, I regret having to even say these things to you. It should never be necessary.
Sincerely,
W. Moran
And, reaction from the cruising community:
Having made two cruises to Florida, I will probably not return. I cannot see why so many go there, when Florida seems to be doing everything it can to be hostile to cruisers.
Norman Mason
Norfolk, VA
It seems that we, the cruising community, are seen as non conformists whose attitudes about freedom and autonomy are dangerous to the post 9/11 security folk. Well, too bad. We are who and what we are, and we will not put up with a police state on the water.
Rick Cass
I have had to meetings with the above. one at fort jefferson which was very nice, and another in pelican bay in charlotte harbour which reminded me of the gestapo
nick chavasse. sv war depart.
Claiborne, There is a contact for reporting abuse or complaints against an FWC Officer The email contact is Mike Troelstrup, Inspector General at Mike.Troelstrup@MyFWC.com . I would urge anyone that considers an interaction from any FWC Officer less than professional, to report the incident.
Chuck Baier
As an interesting contrast; on our last cruise through Florida in April, we were boarded at 04:00 (while underway) by the USCG for a random safety inspection. The inspection team was thorough, polite and efficient. They treated all aboard with respect, went through the boat and the paperwork, and handled the boarding and disembark process like the pros they were. Role models for the FFWC team.
John Martis
If the FWC and indeed any other Government authority concerned about the health, safety and enjoyment of it’s citizens and visitors what we would be reading in these instances, is `welcome to our wonderful waterways’ and then links to various sites which explain things to do and where help is available. That is what I believed we paid taxes for, if these agencies are doing the opposite then they should be re worked or disbanded.
It appears to me that Government has now been given blanket authority to dictate our actions according to their wishes, in other word, Government by Government not by the people. If I am wrong I would like to see the proof.
Dennis McMurtry
Claiborne,
Have read about the FWC harassment of boaters in Florida. I do not think that writing the agency head will make any difference in the behavior of the officers.
So, I wrote the Governor. As a life-long Florida resident, maybe my words will hold some impact. There is an election coming up.
Will let you know if I get a response that address the concern, or whether only a canned response it given.
Glen
Here is the content of Glen’s letter to Governor Scott:
Governor Scott,
I am a native Floridian who is becoming increasingly embarrassed about the way the State of Florida treats my friends who come to Florida to visit.
We have cruised on our boat through over 20 states and Canada. We have been welcomed in every place we have visited by government agencies and people who live along the water or who choose to travel on the water. Contacts with these people have created lasting friendships and an easy acceptance into the close-knit community of boaters.
Florida’s image has suffered in recent years over the way local law enforcement has interacted in often negative ways with cruising boaters over enforcement of anchoring ordinances. For years, these ordinances were in violation of state law. A Florida resident boater felt it necessary to violate a local ordinance, subject himself to arrest, and spend months going through the court process to have the state courts tell the local governments what the state agencies should have, and could have easily, done themselves ‘“ the local anchoring ordinances were not legal. This long process has given Florida a negative image for years.
Now, an agency of the State of Florida is harassing people who choose to visit the state by boat. These cruising boaters often come to Florida for months, spending their money in Florida communities as they travel our coasts. They support a large marine industry, important to the economy of Florida. To harass these visitors through the improper actions of a state law enforcement agency will negatively affect Florida’s tourism and economy.
The officers of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have been harassing cruising boaters in many areas of the state. Those on the water want to be good citizens, following appropriate procedures and treating the waterways in responsible manner. After all, this is their home and they want to protect it and travel in ways respectful to others. They expect to encounter law enforcement offers along the water who have the responsibility of enforcing local and state laws. They don’t expect to be treated with disrespect and actually be endangered in their navigation by these agents of the state.
The internet has improved communications greatly. Below are links to some statements by cruising boaters describing the harassment they have experienced. This is only one site of many who have been reporting about the improper actions of Florida law enforcement.
/florida-law-enforcement-continues-to-aggravate-and-endanger-boaters/
/129366/
Governor Scott, you have pledged to improve the economy of the State of Florida. The actions of the FWC are having a negative effect.
Glen Moore
Here is the Governor’s response to Glen’s letter:
The response from the Governor’s Office is below. Not an answer, only an acknowledgement of receipt.
Glen Moore
Governor Rick Scott Rick.Scott@eog.myflorida.com
11:34 AM (50 minutes ago) to me, Sunburst
Thank you for contacting Governor Rick Scott regarding your concerns regarding the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The Governor appreciates your concerns and asked that I respond on his behalf.
Governor Scott wants to know how people feel about the many critical issues we face. The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) is the agency with the primary responsibility of managing fish and wildlife
resources for their long-term well-being.
To ensure they are aware of your concerns, I forwarded a copy of your email to the Commission for their review. If you wish to contact them directly, contact information is provided below.
Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
620 South Meridian Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1600
(850) 488-4676
www.myfwc.com/
Thank you again for taking the time to contact Governor Scott.
Sincerely,
Kelly Pacchioli
Office of Citizen Services
Executive Office of the Governor
Lack of favorable discretion is a problem. Ever since Florida made a fishing license mandatory the FWC personnel have increased. We do need enforcement for Florida waters. FWC in the Florida keys has been harsh at times and unjustified. I have lived and fished here all my life. I am retired law enforcement and know there is a code of conduct for all state certified Officers. The Florida Highway Patrol is now and always have been a professional state agency that would not tolerate the accusation against FWC. Bottom line is you don’t have to issue citations for every violation. Most FWC Officers are just and courteous. As always there are a few that have not been fired yet. No law enforcement likes complaints justified or not. Fact is if we did not have FWC there would be no desirable fish left in Florida within two years.
predatory practices by FWCC toward boaters in Key West
Being shadowed by a boat with no lights while underway to the dock at sunset is unnerving , but when it turns out to be FWCC , it is worse.
Now pulled over by FWCC, they mention running lights so I mention the sunglasses they still have on. No matter that it is literally moments after sunset. Their intention is to write a citation and generate income for FWCC and at the moment I have become that revenue resource.
Minor infractions that should warrant a verbal warning are tickets.
Worse yet , a few weeks later I receive a certified letter from FWCC .
Inside, a citation for a non operational anchor light , which was issued in my absence from the vessel. It was issued at 6:32 , just after sunset when the ambient light was bright enough to keep the photo cell on my Davis auto anchor light from activating. This anchor light is an industry standard and turns on and off automatically . My vessel was not anchored in State waters but Navy bay bottom and not in navigable waters.
I have lost any respect for the newly inducted Officers, as they lack the skills necessary to gain the confidence of the Citizens and form relationships that would benefit the FWCC and boating community. Older Veteran Officers do not operate in this manner and know that it creates animosity and results in the boating community not helping FWCC in investigations of serious violations due to bad experiences and distrust.
FWCC wonders why the boating community doesn’t trust them , and refuses to cooperate . This is one example of their perception of boaters as a income revenue resource.
In response to reports of numerous crab pots in the west side approach to Marathon (/?p=131869), Captain Lindberg’s remarks refer to 50 statute miles of the Hawk Channel between Rodriguez Key, just north of Key Largo at mile 1145, and Marathon at statute mile 1195.
We just came back from sailing Fort Lauderdale to Boca Chica and back 12/23/13-1/3/14. The pots were so bad between Rodriguez Key and Marathon that we had to drop sails and motor. We had planned on putting out two fishing lines, however it was impossible with all the pots.
Brenda Lindberg
This was our experience as well during the week of January 6th, 2014.
Be Aware and Careful !
DeeDee Lisenby
Snake Creek Bridge - Click for Chartview
Snake Creek is the northernmost (and easternmost) channel in the Florida Keys that provides reasonably reliable access from the Florida Keys Inside (Florida Bay) Route to Hawk Channel, or the other way around. Several earlier articles here on the Cruisers’ Net, as well as my own soundings, indicate that MLW soundings on the extreme Hawk Channel end of the Snake Creek channel, have risen to 5-foot levels.
Snake Creek, is one of only three passages (the other two being Channel Five and Moser Channel) between Miami and Big Pine Key that cruisers can (reliably) use to cruise between the inside and outside Florida Keys routes.
So, timely operation of the bascule bridge crossing Snake Creek is an important consideration for cruisers. Below, Captain Dennis found the bridge tender a bit balky, and he also comments on some nearby powerlines.
I just went through Snake Creek bridge yesterday in a Hunter 285. They publish that they open on demand other then restricted hours. They have change the restricted hours a couple times in the recent past so I won’t quote those hours now, but during the restricted hours they still open on the hour and on the half hour when requested. After just missing the 10:00 am opening, when we could not get a response on the VHF radio from the bridge attendant, we whistled for passing at 1030 at 11 and again at 1130 before we finally got an opening. The bridge attendant’s phone number is 305-664-3632. the mast on our hunter is 44 and a half feet above the water. I estimate that we cleared the power lines by 6-10′ so your 70′ stick is way too high. I tried to call just to see for cities reference, but all I got was a recording.
Capt Dennis with Sailshare
We went through the snake creek channel twice in a leopard 46 with a 70′ mast without incident. The lower wires are telephone and data cables. This was done in Feb 2011.
T. Macpherson
We have taken a 50′ Prout 3 1/2′ draft with 70′ bridge clearance under the Snake creek bridge wires at low tide. The bridge tenders said we were pretty close to the lowest wires, maybe within a foot or two.
Captain Harold Ochstein
January 14, 2014
We took 42ft cat through Snake Creek 12/30/13 ‘“ Took it on rising tide with no issues, except ‘“ bridge tender would not respond. After waiting 15min and requesting response again, then waiting another 15min requesting response, another captain came on and said he was waiting also and that bridge would open at 4. It did open at 4pm, however no response what so ever from bridge tender. I asked some of the locals at fuel dock, and they indicated this was pretty common complaint.
Brenda & George Lindberg
Don’t know why they have not replaced that bridge yet. I lived in the Keys in the 80’s and 90’s and that bridge was stuck in the up position more than twice that I can remember. Great for the boaters, but once it was stuck for over 24 hours. Hundreds of people south were stuck, missed flights and also the nearest hospital was in Marathon. Monroe County needs to hire more friendly people as bridge tenders.
Frank Collins
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Snake Creek
The passage from East Cape on Cape Sable eastward across Florida Bay to Marathon in the Florida Keys requires a sharp lookout at best and the presence of crab pot floats only adds to that necessity.
Florida Bay from Cape Sable to within 2-3 miles of Marathon is carpeted with crab pot markers. While we dodged them all, I heard that 2 boats got their props wrapped during their crossings.
Bob & Loretta McKane.
Florida rule 68B-13.008: Gear, Trap Construction and so forth states in part:No more than 5 feet of any buoy line attached to a buoy used to mark a stone crab trap or attached to a trotline shall float on the surface of the water.
I have personally wrapped up in traps with 50′ of floating line.
FWC doesn’t seem to enforce this rule or the other one about dropping pots in channels. I’ve had problems with them crossing under the 7 mile bridge as well. It’s a mine field in the channel.
Larry Annen
Once you leave Little Shark, travel down the shoreline to Cape Sable and then take a course for John Sawyer Bank just on the north side of Marathon. From their you can easily follow the ICW to 7 Mile Bridge and then head back in Boot Key Harbor. There really isn’t an exact route. Plan on water depths of 8 to 14 feet and LOTS of crab and lobster traps to dodge. We look for an wind out of the eastern quadrant to run down the coast and then leave Little Shark early to get calm seas. We watch for a time when there are 2 footers or less. Dodging pots in seas is a real pain.
Marty and Jerry Richardson onboard M/V Monarch
If you run inside the Everglades Park limits you will have no Crab Pots, but once you get south of the Everglades Park watch out for them.
Mitch & Carole On Serendipity in FT. Myers
Captain Kettlewell sends us this article by reporter Gwen Filosa in The Florida Keys and Key West’s Daily Inline News. The report details discussions between members of the Bight Management Board and Mark Tait, the manager of the City Marina, concerning enforcement of the current law requiring pump-outs. For the complete story, go to: http://keysnews.com/node/52348. Such enforcement will affect transients and live-aboards.
Key West is considering requiring dinghies and visiting boats to show proof of pumpouts before docking!
What about those of us who use composting or incinerating toilets or porta potties?
John Kettlewell
While I absolutely agree that no boat should ever pump raw sewage overboard, someone in the Key West city attorney’s office and Monroe County should read the Federal Clean Water Act! It clearly and specifically prohibits states (and, therefore, municipalities from regulating MSDs or their use! They can enforce the Federal law and regulations but cannot go beyond those requirements. The federal law and regulations were put in place to avoid just this type of hodgepodge of laws which would be impossible for vessels to know or follow as they transit different local jurisdictions.
Larry Sherman s/v Enchantress
As a follow-up to my recent email regarding Key West requiring proof of pumpout, here is the Federal law prohibiting the states and their political subdivisions from doing that! Perhaps you could have your friends at BoatUS look into this?
(f) Regulation by States or political subdivisions thereof; complete prohibition upon discharge of sewage
(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), after the effective date of the initial standards and regulations promulgated under this section, no State or political subdivision thereof shall adopt or enforce any statute or regulation of such State or political subdivision with respect to the design, manufacture, or installation or use of any marine sanitation device on any vessel subject to the provisions of this section.
(B) A State may adopt and enforce a statute or regulation with respect to the design, manufacture, or installation or use of any marine sanitation device on a houseboat, if such statute or regulation is more stringent than the standards and regulations promulgated under this section. For purposes of this paragraph, the term `houseboat’ means a vessel which, for a period of time determined by the State in which the vessel is located, is used primarily as a residence and is not used primarily as a means of transportation.
Larry Sherman s/v Enchantress
With respect to the federal law quoted, consider that Texas has an MSD Certification requirement (TEX WA. CODE ANN. § 26.044 : Texas Statutes ‘“ Section 26.044: DISPOSAL OF BOAT SEWAGE)
That has been in place since 2009 without federal challenge.
It applies thusly, `As used in this section, `boat’ means any vessel or other watercraft, whether moved by oars, paddles, sails, or other power mechanism, inboard or outboard, or any other vessel or structure floating on water in this state, whether or not capable of self-locomotion, including but not limited to cabin cruisers, houseboats, barges, marinas, and similar floating objects.’ The Gulf ICW is “water” in this state.
Chris and Janet
Just before Christmas, we received a telephone call from a fellow cruiser, reporting that the FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission) was going to propose a three year extension of the Florida Pilot Mooring Field Program. There was not time to verify this data before the Holiday, but then, over Christmas, Captain Michael Connelly forwarded the “Florida Keysnoter” (www.keysnet.com) story below (see red text), which confirms the FWC’s action.
The entire issue of Florida anchoring rights and Florida mooring fields has become a fast moving, and much discussed issue here on the SSECN. First, we presented a very frank discussion about the desirability of having mooring fields at all (see /?p=123153), and then comes the bombshell that ALL Florida anchoring and mooring field regulations are being challenged in US Federal court (see /?p=129877)! Now, here comes the FWC proposing a three year extension of the Pilot Program.
It’s becoming a full time job just to keep up with this dynamic situation. The Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net promises to do all in our power to keep the cruising community fully informed on all the latest developments in the struggle for Florida anchoring rights. HOWEVER, we need the help of fellow cruisers, like yourself and Captain Connelly. WHENEVER YOU GET WIND OF ANY LATE BREAKING DEVELOPMENTS, PLEASE SHOOT THAT INFO TO THE SSECN AT THE EARLIEST POSSIBLE MOMENT!
New managed anchoring areas in the Florida Keys could have a short life span.
A statewide pilot program that allowed creation of the new areas expires in July unless the Florida Legislature acts this spring.
In October 2012, Monroe County commissioners gave final approval to the managed anchoring zones, or narrow no-anchoring buffer zones around existing mooring fields, in Marathon’s Boot Key Harbor, and in Lower Keys waters of Boca Chica Basin, Key West Harbor and Cow Key Channel.
Over the past year, the areas went into effect as boundaries were marked by signs, and informational brochures were distributed to boaters and local marinas. A system of providing free but mandatory sewage pumpouts once a month was instituted.
“Things are in place and going well,” Rich Jones, Monroe County’s senior administrator of Marine Resources, said this week.
“We have not had a lot of feedback” from boaters using the areas, Jones said, “other than everybody likes the free pumpouts.”
Information on how many boats are using the managed areas was not available at press time.
The Legislature passed the 2009 law allowing the pilot program in five specific areas, including the Keys. The legislation specifies that the special rules will sunset on July 1 unless extended.
It took time for local jurisdictions to craft their plans and rules, then have them approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Monroe County’s pilot program also needed the endorsement of city officials in Marathon and Key West.
A slate of requests from the FWC board to state legislators for this spring’s session is expected to include a recommendation that the pilot anchoring program be extended until 2017.
The Keys zones primarily were created to eliminate the illegal dumping of sewage from anchored boats, and identify boats at risk of sinking and becoming derelict.
“Florida Keys waters have historically been used for living aboard and storage of vessels at anchor,” says the county’s managed-area information. “The water-related Keys lifestyle is a traditional part of the Keys culture. However, in recent years irresponsible boating practices, associated with proliferation of unmanaged anchorages, have created environmental impacts that have become a growing public concern.”
As it stands, the Monroe County anchorages would remain if the Florida Legislature extends the pilot program. However, Monroe County commissioners could end the local program on their own by changing the local law creating them.
As of 1/6/14, the “Keynoter” has published a follow-up story on this issue at:
http://keysnews.com/node/52752
It’s WELL WORTH READING. PLEASE follow the link above!
I view FWC’s latest announcement as a positive move. The state of Florida is continuing to hold municipalities accountable until a formal process for establishing anchorages and mooring fields is put in place. By doing this FWC (the state of Florida) prevents the Wild West of anchoring rules which are dreamed up by any town, county or city who wishes to displace or control boaters. If ultimately there is a permanent Florida state statute which has similar checks and balances in place as the current temporary statute, I believe the boating public at large will be equally well served.
Philip Johnson
Anyone who thinks the FWC has nothing better to do than harass local live a boards, has no idea of what’s going on. Every thing they are trying to enforce only promotes the conservation of our beautiful community. Follow the rules when you are in our backyard and you will find the harassment non existent.
Today alone between noon and two o’clock FWC resecued a lost diver, responded to a reported square grouper, and investigated a migrant insertion vessel off of boot key.
Joe Bauman
I’m sorry to say, but I know of some experienced cruisers that are staying away from these communities with managed mooring fields and anti-anchoring regulations. The derelicts have not gone away, just moved elsewhere. So the only people impacted by these laws are the responsible transient boaters like myself who prefer to use our thousands of dollars of anchoring gear for something other than bow jewelry. And, these communities that think they will now reap the rewards of forcing boaters to pick up pay moorings are paying for all this with their taxes as the fees do not cover the costs of building, running, and maintaining the fields.
John Kettlewell
It is now the morning of 12/19/13, and we have already been on the telephone with “Katrina,” Administrative Assistant for the Boot Key City Harbormaster, and have learned that a meeting did indeed take place last evening, at Boot Key Harbor City Marina with representatives of the FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Service), local Marathon, Florida governmental officials, and a host of cruisers. If you have been following this situation both here on the SSECN, and/or on the Cruisers’ Forum (see both /?p=129366 and http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/civil-rights-attorney-needed-marathon-fl-116693-11.html), you know that a HOST of cruisers have lodged serious complaints and questions about “heavy handed” actions on the part of FWC officers in boarding and inspecting vessels both at anchor, and on the city provided mooring balls, in Boot Key Harbor.
The Marathon local government became integrally involved in this matter following a very substantial cruising community presence at the last city council meeting. Unfortunately, the on-line minutes of this meeting are not yet available, but we are told the city government expressed serious concern about the actions of the FWC, and it apparently became quite clear that local government was very much an ally of the entire cruising community in this matter.
One of the prime movers in this entire affair has been the captain of the sailing vessel, “Thin Line.” Late in the day on 12/19/13, the master of this vessel posted a note on Cruisers’ Forum, which we have reprinted below! It makes for very interesting reading, and provides what is probably the BEST summary of the 12/18/12 meeting!
Back to the timeline, the result of all this early interaction was that a meeting was arranged for the evening of 12/18/13 to bring together all interested and concerned parties. As alluded to above, this meeting was indeed held, and, thanks to our conversation with “Katrina,” we are able to provide a summary of what took place.
We interviewed “Katrina” on the morning of 12/19/13 at some length about this important gathering, and were told that the meeting encompassed better than three hours, and provided a forum for many cruisers to voice their concerns to Captain David Dipre, lead FWC representative, who “chaired” the meeting. We were told the give and take between cruisers and the FWC “went fairly well,” and many “left with a positive note.”
Captain Dipre suggested that all cruisers and boat owners who experience future problems with FWC officers, contact him directly at 305-289-2320. He and his fellows also brought along books of Florida boating regulations which were distributed at the meeting, and it was discussed which regs applied to the situation in Boot Key Harbor.
And now, we will leave our reporting mode, and enter into some editorial comments. ALL CRUISERS AND LOCAL BOAT OWNERS WHO BROUGHT THIS SITUATION TO THE FORE, AND SHONE A SPOTLIGHT ON THE ACTIONS OF THE FWC, HAVE DONE A GREAT SERVICE FOR THE CRUISING COMMUNITY! With this much attention being paid, it’s a very safe bet that FWC officers operating in Boot Key Harbor will be very mindful of courtesy and their own conduct regulations for some time to come!
It is the editorial opinion of the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net that Boot Key Harbor is once again, and will most likely remain so for some time to come, a welcoming place for both resident and visiting cruisers. And, that’s a very good thing indeed, as Boot Key Harbor is the finest and most protected natural anchorage in all of the Florida Keys.
Be ASSURED that the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net will continue to monitor this situation closely. Let’s all hope the meeting of 12/18/13 closes this unfortunate chapter which has blemished an otherwise sterling cruising destination in the Florida Keys. Please let us know about your experiences in BKH by sending e-mail to CruiserNet@triad.twcbc.com, or following the “Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below!
And now, PLEASE READ THESE IMPORTANT WORDS FROM THE CAPTAIN OF THE “THIN LINE:”
Sorry I haven’t been able to respond until now, our harbor internet is being worked on so I couldn’t write last night and I had to work today.
Last nights meeting was well attended, both by boaters, the FWC, and other interested parties. There were 2 FWC Capt’s, and 1 officer, 4 USCG, as well as the Mayor and several city council members. While the discussion was at times heated and several times seemed to derail and go off track, overall there was much good discussion. What I find interesting is the varying opinions of the way the meeting turned out. I personally think the meeting accomplished everything we set out to do. We,,
1. Brought attention to the problem.
2. They acknowledged our voice by having the meeting, and by those who attended.
3. They were in PR mode and attempted to put a human face on the FWC, Capt Dupree represented them well.
4. The FWC acknowledged there were problems with some laws and they are working on getting them resolved.
5. Cleared up some rumors that were blown way out of proportion.
6. We were able to establish that almost, if not all, of the questionable interactions were from 1 particular officer. (training issue)
7. Capt Dupree stated that his officers are being instructed to show greater discretion and more respect for the boaters in Boot Key.
8. Both Capt’s have instituted an open door policy, as well as gave out personal numbers to discuss issues as they happen instead of letting it come to a head.
9. Agreed we need to keep this open dialogue and should have a town hall type meeting a couple times per year.
Sure, some of the people that attended wanted a full blown apology, with FWC admitting they did something wrong and groveling, obviously that was not going to happen. They do have to maintain the integrity of the field officers (even if they were wrong) however the general impression I got was they were there to repair the relationship. The Mayor and the city showed a huge amount of support and validation for us as boaters and wanted to make sure this was resolved. Overall the people that attended were well behaved, well mannered and even though a few wanted to bring pitchforks and torches, they checked them at the door. Most importantly my kids were there from start to finish, they got to see how people can rally together and change things. It was also another example of always standing up for what is right, even if it’s not directly affecting you right now, it could have eventually and it was just plain wrong. Everyone stood together, we made our voice heard and to me, that means we won this battle.
Thank you to everyone for your support, your phone calls and your kind words, they helped tremendously! For those of you that were going to skip Boot Key, don’t, you’ll be missing out on a strong community of amazing people I’m proud to call friends.
*_The following is what I said at the meeting when I was asked to speak. I hope I represented the harbor well and I tried to walk a “thin line” between being an upset boater/member of this community, and being a city employee. _*
*We are here tonight to raise questions, questions we as boaters need answers to. Hopefully tonight we will all leave here a little wiser and with far less anxiety. The FWC’s presence in the harbor starting on Thanksgiving day was overwhelming to say the least. Nightly spotlighting, and late night boarding of vessels without cause brought a sense of fear into Boot Key Harbor. This is a family community of live aboard boaters, these are our homes. I also know that FOR NOW’¦ these are not offered the same protection, but they should be offered respect. A little bit of tact on the part of the FWC officers in question and we might not be here tonight.
Capt Dupree you said something the other day that stuck with me, it’s something I think might have prevented the entire situation in the harbor if those officers here would have followed your advice. “Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should” Just because you can board a vessel at 11pm, waking a family, scaring the children AND the parents out of sleep and into a state of disorientation, doesn’t mean you should. Using discretion and a little bit of tact, goes a long way with the public, just as the decision of your officers went a long way in creating this negative situation. Their actions have reached far beyond the mangroves of Boot Key Harbor. There are articles nationwide in magazines, internet and other media, and the city marina is fielding calls daily from all over the country about this situation. On cruisers forum alone there are over 15k views and word is spreading fast. We all await the outcome of this meeting. Many people have decided to skip Boot Key until this is resolved. This lost revenue creates a ripple effect that also reaches far and beyond the harbor. Cruisers bring money, dispensable income that infuses the economy here in Marathon. These businesses also have an interest in the outcome of this meeting.
I understand after talking with you, several of these citations were warranted. Many times the one ticket written was the least of the many infractions the individual could have gotten. Other times the citations have been odd, if not just plain bizarre. Writing tickets for things nobody has ever heard of, again, “Just because they can”. Capt Dupree, what we want is consistent interactions and for you to pass this message to your officers in the field. We are not going to live in fear, we will not put up with heavy handed officers, and we WILL call into question at the highest levels, the necessity of actions such as nightly spotlighting and shining into my 8 year old daughters bedroom window. How many nights in a row do you have to “check my registration”? Capt Dupree we welcome the dialogue and the help in returning Boot Key Harbor to the way it was before Thanksgiving. Respect is not something that comes with a gun and a badge, fear does not earn it and it is not blindly given. When it is not given to us we question that authority, so tonight lets try and repair what has been damaged and show each other mutual respect.. Thank you. *
What was the reason for the heavy handed and (in my view) illegal police activity?
Captain Mike Wright
Captain Wright wrote, `What was the reason for the heavy handed and (in my view) illegal police activity?’
Captain Wright,
1. What was the answer you received from FWC?
2. What do you expect to change as a result of the meeting?
Thanks
Jim
My good friend Walt Avery has retired from his career as a marine biologist working in Tampa Bay on seagrass restoration to live aboard his lovingly restores Pearson 39. He is a waterman with as good a knowledge of the rules and regulations as any one I know but he is now fighting a jack-booted FWC in Marathon’s Boot Key Harbor.
He relates the story of a family with children rousted in the middle of the night for inspection.
I don’t know how aware you or those in the Marine Industries Association are of what is going on but he reports that FWC is running off law abiding yachtsmen with enforcement of obscure regulations (like needing a 12-volt system on your dingy to maintain a yellow over white light over the long winter night.)
Law abiding yachtsmen are facing criminal prosecution for bizarre laws.
The restaurants are losing customers who don’t want to get caught taking their dingies back to their boats after dark without full lighting, not just a motoring light.
Boot Key Harbor, which generally has a waiting list this time of year has a 20% vacancy due to FWC tactics including late night inspections and demands that out of state yachtsmen from states that don’t require registration of documented vessels must now register their boats in Florida if they stay longer than 60 days. Think of having to pay sales tax on your yacht’s value if you want to come and spend money in Florida.
I want to spread the word. Our marinas could be next.
Merry Christmas,
Kevin
Actions speak louder than words. Hopefully, the meeting will help the situation. But don’t get your hopes up. This has been going on for decades in Boot Key Harbor. I was there in 1988, when they did a joint operation with the Florida Marine Patrol, Monroe County Sheriffs, Customs and immigration, and the FWC.They sealed the harbor on both ends,and using a bullhorn, ordered everyone to return to their boats and standby for boarding. They then spent the entire day boarding boats and writing frivolous citations. I believe Capt Dipre is the same guy who was some kind of spokesman for the FWC at the time. He went on the local radio station and basically said they planned to keep on doing it. Boot key Harbor has been the subject of harassment for decades, with occasional periods of relative calm, followed by more harassment.
Also see the Sept 2007 issue of southwinds, and scroll down to the `letters’, where this then `officer’ Dipre is mentioned, regarding another raid. It appears he is probably behind most of the harassment, but seems to be softening his image a bit at the recent meeting.
http://www.southwindssailing.com/pdfs-issues/southwindsseptember2007.pdf
This Dipre guy has been defending his cops for the past 25 years, with any relief being short lived!
Scott Kuhnen
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Boot Key Harbor City Marina
On 12/9/13, it was brought to the attention of the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net that there was/is a lengthy thread of messages on the Cruisers Forum (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/civil-rights-attorney-needed-marathon-fl-116693-11.html) about what has been described as “heavy handed tactics” on the part of the FWC (formerly the Florida Marine Patrol) regarding boats anchored, and on the city provided mooring balls, in Marathon, Florida’s Boot Key Harbor. This lengthy chain of messages was begun by this article, posted by a local cruiser and employee of the Marathon City Marina, located in Boot Key Harbor:
Every night for the past two weeks the boaters in Boot Key Harbor have been harassed by the FWC. I understand they need to do their job, however if the following is “doing their job” then I don’t even recognize the place I grew up.
Shining lights in boat windows at 10:30PM, boarding boats when people are fast asleep. This is my home and my daughters bed is right by the window, what right do they have to shine lights in my house waking us up when not investigating anything, it’s become a nightly occurrence.
Tonight they tried to tell a group of us on land to leave the area at the city marina. We stood fast and refused to leave since we were in no way interfering with their duties and we paid to be there. Dictating our actions on land when not on the water seems a slight overstep. The boaters of Boot Key Harbor are being harassed by the FWC, they have written unwarranted tickets to people just arriving and boats are leaving because of it. They even forced someone to FL register their boat, the person actually got a refund from the tax collectors because the FWC was absolutely wrong. A boat that was here 19 days received a ticket for not being FL registered, 19 days in the state and they wrote a ticket. The best one I’ve heard was them tell a person they were giving them a warning for having wet life jackets, apparently wet life jackets don’t float
I understand Marathon is a training ground for the FWC, but if this is the training they are receiving it scares me to think what’s coming. The boaters in Marathon are sick of it and ready to take a stand, we need an attorney to stop the midnight searches, blinding spotlights and floating checkpoints that harass law abiding boaters, we are not the enemy. If anyone can suggest someone in the local area, it would be very much appreciated.
S/V Thin Red Line
Unfortunately, after this original, very thoughtful message was published, there followed a long string of submissions about America becoming a police state of some sort. That is certainly not the editorial view of the SSECN, and most of these postings added nothing to a substantive discussion about problems with the FWC in Boot Key Harbor.
Then, more recently, the “Thin Red Line” recorded the following note:
First of all I have no problem with the USCG and their authority, this strictly has to do with the FWC in Marathon please try to stay on topic.
I am sorry I haven’t had a whole lot of time to respond but I have been actively organizing several things including a presence at the Marathon city council meeting this Thursday at 5:30pm. We have contacted the mayor, Keynoter newspaper as well as other media outlets. The harassment has been of ALL boats in Boot Key, both anchored and moored. The city marina is aware but has no pull, the local sheriff also has his hands tied and can do nothing to call them off. The harbormaster attempted to arrange a meeting with a FWC representative and was denied.
We are encouraging everyone to record any and all interactions with FWC via smartphone, camera etc. People are not enjoying this wonderful community, afraid to simply dinghy to shore, even legally. They are writing “warning” tickets to people for things that do not exist, things they couldn’t actually cite or write an actual ticket for. They hover around the dinghy dock and point to people that aren’t even operating a vessel and shout “come here”. The roaming of the harbor past 11pm while randomly spotlighting vessels, shining their lights in ports and boarding boats without owners is where I draw the line. My 8 year old daughters bed is right at our port window, what right do they have to wake me, or my family for no reason?
The other night we had a potluck and they hovered around stopping any and all dinghies they could. Once as they were leaving the canal at WELL over idle speed (idle speed in all manmade canals is posted right there) we told them to slow down and they did only to tell us “Hey guys, catch ya later” while laughing and resuming their harassment.
A few nights ago I called FWC dispatch to report a manatee in distress entangled in crab traps, I was told they were busy and the dispatcher did not even take all of my information. They did call back the next afternoon to find out more, however they were there later that night to harass boaters. I thought they were the Florida Fish & Wildlife? Yet they have no concern when I call for that exact thing? They were too busy writing a ticket for someone having “wet lifejackets” Yep that’s right wet life jackets.. Did you know according to FWC if your lifejackets are wet they won’t float..
We need help, we need to show them we know the limit of their power and will not accept abuse. I am in a unique position because I am a city employee, however I am also a resident here in Boot Key, but first and foremost I’m a boater and this is my neighborhood too.
S/V Thin Line
Originally, the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net did not know the results of the Marathon City Council meeting referred to above. However, after including a reference to this entire situation in our “SSECN Alert” of 12/13/13, Captains David O’Neil and Sue Kennedy remedied that situation, and the meeting results are MOST ENCOURAGING. In fact, it is now known that local government in Marathon is very much on the side of the cruising community.
Before sharing this encouraging news, we need to bring two other very important messages to light, which originally appeared before the local meeting in Marathon:
This is the response from the FWC. If more of us contact them it may have an effect!!!
http://myfwc.com/contact/fwc-staff/report-misconduct/
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Deranek:
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) Office of Inspector General (OIG) received your email concerning FWC officers in Marathon, i.e. harassing boaters in Boot Key Harbor. We will look into the allegations and inform you of the outcome.
Sincerely,
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
Office of Inspector General
620 S. Meridian Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1600
(850)488-6068 (office)
(850)488-6414 (FAX)
And, also posted on 12/10/13, there is this tantalizing message!
The fwc has agreed to a meeting at the marina on the evening of the 18th. We will all be there. Should be an interesting night. I believe that a great deal of the problem is new young officers. They wrote one guy a warning for not having an anchor light on his dingy that was tied to his anchored boat with a six foot line. (His sailboat did have an anchor light) It really has reached the point of supidity. We are paid up till the 2nd, thinking of leaing then and spend the rest of the season in Islamarada.
Ready2GO
As alluded to above, after our “Alert” of 12/13/13, within a few hours, we heard from Captain David O’Neil who provided a link to a later “Thin Line” message giving the results of the Marathon City Council meeting, while Captain Sue Kennedy sent us the entire text. The note below proves there can still be GOOD NEWS when it comes to Florida cruising, AND that Marathon local government is as concerned about this situation as those of us in the cruising community. Read on!
The city council meeting went better than anyone could have imagined. The city manager brought the issue to the attention of everyone before I even had a chance to speak, the mayor and the city council are extremely troubled by the actions of the FWC. I spoke in front of the largest attended meeting in the history of the city of Marathon, our presence was obvious and kudos to everyone that rallied together. The mayor and the city council will be attending our meeting with FWC here at city marina on Dec 18th at 6pm, along with the city manager.
The FWC Sgt that is representing the FWC at the meeting used to be an officer here in Marathon and still lives here. When he was here the other day we discussed several of the issues at hand and both sides of the story were presented to each other. While I agreed most of the tickets were valid, he also stated that it wasn’t the right way to go about things. “just because officers can do something, doesn’t mean they should” We discussed the fact that while many of the tickets written were law, several of them were ones nobody would ever write. For instance there is a law that states your dinghy, if not tied up beside your boat needs to have it’s own anchorlight. However who writes that ticket? A new officer trying to make an impression that’s who .
The Sgt will be helping us understand what they are looking for, discussing the legality of their boardings and what they can and can’t do, as well as acting as a point of contact if we have any further problems. On that note, we have not seen and FWC boat in the harbor in 4 to 5 days, maybe someone received a memo? Boot Key is worth stopping, it’s a wonderful place full of families and a strong sense of community. My twochildren are both surrounded by otherkids and right now the harbor has well over 15 kids. The problem appears to be on the mend and things seem to be on their way back to normal.
Thank you CF and all those that are supporting our cause. Fair winds..
Thin Red Line
Clearly, the meeting between local cruisers, Marathon government officials, and the FWC on 12/18/13 will be the key element in hopefully solving this situation once and for all. We will report the results of that conference just as soon as possible.
In the meantime, THE SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET CONTINUES TO URGE ALL CRUISERS WHO HAVE HAD DIRECT EXPERIENCE, GOOD, BAD OR INDIFFERENT, WITH THE FWC IN BOOT KEY HARBOR TO LET US HEAR FROM YOU. And, please do NOT send us submissions about how the USA has become a “police state.” This is not useful input, and will not be published on the SSECN.
HOWEVER, to be repetitive, we DO need to hear from every possible cruiser who has first hand experience with the FWC in Boot Key Harbor. PLEASE follow the “Click Here to Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, or send us e-mail at CruisersNet@triad.twcbc.com. Your fellow cruisers heading for the Florida Keys can’t wait to hear from you!
And, below are some additional messages from the cruising community:
Time to contact the chamber of commerce and let them know you will not be spending any money there.
Ted
I would love to hear all the facts from both sides on this issue. We were planning on visiting for a winter, but’¦..
I hope the situation is not without repair. It would be nice to know all the facts and circumstances. I have been to Boot Key and the Keys many times without problem.
Here is the harbor web cam http://www.ci.marathon.fl.us/government/departments/marina-and-ports/marina-webcam/
Sonny Reeves
Here is a link to the OP’s (Thin Line) update on the city council meeting and it’s results regarding the current situation in Boot Key Harbor.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/civil-rights-attorney-needed-marathon-fl-116693-13.html#post1413678
David ONeill
Claiborne,
There are several different issues here, widely misunderstood, and jumbled together. That is not helpful to reasoned thought and discussion. It amazes me how little cruisers know about this topic and how willing many seem to be to give up their rights and their privacy ‘“ and mine ‘“ so easily.
First, the legal authority of the USCG comes directly from the United States Congress. There is an excellent article on USCG boarding authority, published in the USCG Summer, 2009, issues of `Proceedings’ Magazine, page 29, here: http://uscgproceedings.epubxp.com/i/85792. Those that argue the extra-Constitutionality of USCG boardings would benefit from knowing that the same congress (1790) that gave us the 4th Amendment gave the predecessors of today’s Coast Guard the authority to board all vessels in US waters. That congress, I infer, UNDERSTOOD the meaning of the Constitution that they, themselves, had written. Note that other FEDERAL AGENCIES appear to have that same boarding authority, including the Navy and CBP. Now I grant you, in 1790, there weren’t many live-aboard long range cruisers. And probably none with innocent motives. Nevertheless, that USCG operates with full Congressional authority, and full governmental immunity, for better or for worse.
Second, what is really at issue in Marathon is the LEGAL authority of state, municipal and `other,’ miscellaneous agencies; the USCG has no role in that discussion. I don’t know if boardings by these state and lesser agencies has been litigated anywhere, but assuming the stories about what’s going on in Marathon are true and correct, I’d guess that FWC is far in excess of US Constitutional authority. Some `federal’ authorities ‘“ USCG, CBP ‘“ may be exempt from the need to demonstrate probable cause, but state, county and local authorities most probably are not. It’s even possible that these agents are operating within their state’s adopted statutory authority, but if that’s so, the adopting state legislature would be unconstitutionally exceeding their authority. This is the same issue cruisers face in the Lower Hudson Valley with 30 +/- local police agencies all doing boardings. And we all remember the armed boarding done by the Volusia County, Florida, sheriff’s department. That got swept under the rug, but it was certainly excessive under the guise of a safety or MSD inspection, and it happened because these agencies operate beyond their authority in the first place.
From our position as cruisers, the only way this can be stopped is for someone to litigate it through the courts, as Dave Dumas did in the Marco Island anchoring debacle. Until a judge issues a restraining order, jurisdictions and rogue officers can operate any way they wish. That appears to be what FWC is doing in Marathon, or at least, allowing a rogue officer to do. Until a judge issues a restraining order, the only tool we have as cruisers is public opinion and economic withdrawal.
One last thing. Let me emphasize, I am NOT lobbying for people being allowed to pump overboard or for ignoring unsafe operation. But, I also do not approve of the excessive and inappropriate use of police power by states, counties, municipalities and agencies. There is NEVER a reason for `boating safety inspections’ to take place after dark, and certainly not when people might reasonably be asleep aboard!
Thank you.
Jim Healy
Now, here we have a LIVELY discussion about the pros and cons (in this case, mostly “cons”) of mooring fields in Florida. It is only fair to note that other strings of messages here on the SSECN, and in other forums, have expressed good opinions of the Florida mooring fields.
Clearly, this is an issue that arouses passions within the cruising community, no matter on which side of the issue you fall.
WE ENCOURAGE SSECN READERS TO EXPRESS THEIR POINT OF VIEW ON THIS TIMELY TOPIC. Please follow the “Click Here to Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, or send e-mail to EditorialDirector@CruisersNet.net.
Let the discussion begin!
I would like to start a conversation and try to force some changes. I have two problems I have noticed with Florida mooring fields. One is they seem to be placing the boundary marks for the field in a much larger area than they need to, making good anchoring space unusable. The two I have noticed this at are St Augustine and Titusville. The other issue is some are charging the same rate for a mooring as they are for just dinghy dockage. Examples being Marathon and Vero Beach. I don’t think we should have to pay the same fee for less services. If you are anchored that is one more mooring open for them to rent therefore the price should reflect that. They have a lot of money invested in those mooring and the price should be less if you are not using one. They are either undercharging mooring customers or overcharging anchored customers. I hope I am not just ranting and others agree with me. Any comments would be good, and I would like if anyone has any ideas of how to change this. With Florida’s past issues with anchoring I hope this is not a way for them restrict our anchoring. This net seems to get things out there and get people motivated. You do A great service to the cruising community and I thank you.
Mike ODonnell SV Bay Tripper
For both Marathon & Vero Beach, anchoring is either limited or not permitted. What those prices tell me is they REALLY want you to take a mooring. If you don’t like it, don’t stop there.
Tom
Thanks for the comment. I have gone by and not stopped in the past because of the mooring field, until I found there is still lots of good anchoring room. Vero Beach tried to outlaw anchoring but the court took that down. The mooring field is regularly full and you need to raft three boats together which doesn’t work for me with two young kids. I don’t think anyone wants to pay for a mooring and have a baby in the boat next to them wake them 5 times during the night. I anchored in vero for at least two weeks last year while provisioning for the winter. The marina told me we were not welcome there unless we rent a mooring whether we used the mooring or not. But there are a few other places to tye a dingy in the area so its still a good stop. I was willing to pay them $10 per day for just dingy dockage and no mooring, but they would not do anything less than the full rate. So they got no money from me instead. They could have made a few hundred dollars more and rented the mooring I was not using. There loss not mine.
Mike
I’ll just plan my future trips in Florida so that I don’t have to stop at any place with one of these crappy mooring fields.
Until all the places in Florida who don’t want tourist money are gone, it’s easy to just avoid these places. Every decision in Florida government (I used to live there) is made with a calculator. We just need to make sure the places who make these decisions regret it when they add the numbers up in a few years.
R. Holiman
Another complaint I have is the requirement in the Key West mooring field to put one months deposit down. I only had a debit card so they took 600 and change to move in and once I left it took over 2 weeks for the money to be returned. The facilities were decent enough though.
Dave C
I have no problem paying the mooring fee for Vero, Fernandina and St. Augustine, but it would really help if these areas were also designated as no wake zones covering the entire limits of the mooring field and not just the marina. Sitting on a mooring in St. Augustine only to be waked by passing powerboats including those belonging to Homeland Security really grates me.
Bob
To me it’s simple. Anchoring is a cruising skill that I like to use and perfect, just like many others. It is an enjoyable part of cruising that is an important part of the experience to me. So, I go where I can anchor, and I don’t go where I am forced to take a mooring or else the moorings and dockage so restrict the anchoring area as to make it undesirable or unsafe. My money is spent where I can anchor out. Taking away my ability to anchor is like telling me I am not allowed to raise sails on my sailboat because the powers that be want me to purchase diesel fuel. Plus, money I am forced to spend on a mooring is also money that is not available to be spent by me in local restaurants and shops, and it shortens my stay in a town. In most cases, mooring fields are all about the money, despite the insane justifications made for them with regard to derelict boats, etc. I have personally managed to anchor just outside of the vast Marathon mooring field during the summer season when the moorings were doing the city no good as they were empty growing barnacles. They were simply blocking the harbor anchorage area, meaning those of us who want to anchor were only staying for a short time and then heading elsewhere.
John Kettlewell
By the way, as a follow up to my comments above, it should be noted that most of these mooring fields end up being big money losers for the communities that put them in. Most of the Florida fields are paid for by the taxpayers, and then the collected fees almost never cover expenses so the taxpayers end up paying again. Even the giant field at Marathon has only been kept afloat through the injection of hundreds of thousands of dollars from local taxpayers. Maintenance is therefore often neglected or postponed, and I know of several cases of moorings being declared unsafe in Florida. However, there is no standard of inspection required’“you are depending for the safety of your boat on the skill, vigilance, and budget of municipal employees, often hired at low wages. I have personally observed unsafe practices being utilized in the construction of some mooring components in a major field’“I wouldn’t trust my boat to such practices.
John Kettlewell
Your right about them not making enough money on the moorings. Marathon told me they raised the dinghy dock fee because they have been undercharging the mooring customers and need to make up for it. Does that make any sense? They don’t want to raise the mooring rate because when they installed the field they told people it would be kept affordable. Again, charging the same price for less services would not be tolerated in any other business.
Mike
Mooring fields create another option for cruisers to access marina facilities and communities at a lower price than transient slip fee rates. Some even provide pump out service on the mooring. There are less worries about adequate spacing and anchors dragging. In rough weather, I prefer a mooring ball to being in an anchorage. When I am ready to go, it is nice to drop lines and take off. I agree municipal marinas should, for a fee, provide access to their facilities even if you choose to anchor’¦and many do. I have paid fees in Marathon while waiting for a mooring to open. I have paid fees in Ft. Lauderdale to use the dinghy dock and marina facilities while anchoring in Lake Sylvia. The charge was almost as much as the mooring field, but we did have access to the marina dinghy dock, showers, laundry, lounge, etc. Members of the cruising community should be encouraging communities to invest in attracting cruisers. Providing convenient dinghy access to restaurants and businesses is a must to attract cruisers. Providing marinas and mooring field options with access to marina facilities and community services in my opinion should be encouraged, not complained about.
Kevin Koehl
In regard to what Kevin Koehl wrote about providing affordable access, I agree to a point. However, as a serious cruiser, I already have to purchase, install, and maintain thousands of dollars worth of anchoring gear. I didn’t purchase all that gear to just drag it around with me on my boat’“I would rather utilize this thousands of dollars worth of equipment which I know and trust, and costs me nothing additional per day. I have anchored in everything up to hurricanes, so I feel safe and secure when on my own gear. Paying a fee to use gear that I have no knowledge of, have not seen installed, and have not maintained is not a seamanlike way to manage my boat.
John Kettlewell
Moorings are a great way to prevent damage to coral reefs, example being the virgin islands. I have used the marathon moorings, and find the price reasonable, the services good, and you do not have to worry about the idiot that does not know how to anchor. Anchoring etiquette has disappeared from the seas. I always ask the vessels that i will be close to how much rode and what type they have out before i anchor. But all that said, i would prefer to sit on the hook in a nice anchorage then be in a slip.
Nick Chavasse. sv war depart.
The Ft. Myers Beach mooring field was a pleasant stay with decent facilities provided. The dinghy dock is just a couple blocks from downtown attractions. A bargain for $13/night compared to $2.50/ft transient slips. It’s the way to go to pack many boats into a small area.
Archie Faulkner
Big changes are taking place at what used to be Sombrero Marina Dockside in Boot Key Harbor. This facility resides near the western end of BKH, just west of marker #5A. This long popular establishment has, heretofore, consisted a very well patronized, semi-open air bar, and a marina, which consists of wet slips and dinghy docks set around the “L” shaped curve in the harbor west of #5A.
The bar/restaurant part of the operation has now been split apart, and been renamed Dockside Tropical Cafe’ (formerly Dockside Bar & Grill and Dockside Lounge) It will open in two week (mid-November, 2013). Under new owners, Eric Stone (singer/songwriter) and Kim Hess-Stone (creator Yoga Onboard), we get the feeling that Tropical Cafe may very well become “the” spot for cruisers to gather in Marathon and Boot Key Harbor.
Here is Dockside Tropical Cafe’s new contact and location information:
Dockside Tropical Cafe’ (formerly Dockside Bar & Grill and Dockside Lounge)
35 Sombrero Blvd
Marathon Fl 33050
305-743-0000
http://www.DocksideTropicalcafe.com
http://www.facebook.com/docksidetrop
http://www.twitter.com/docksidetrop
Sounds like a GOOD time will be had by all. See you there!
Wow we have been waiting for this!!! Will be down mid December on our trawler with a gang of Canadian friends on their boats too. Good luck to,the new owners as it has always been popular.
M/V JENNY
Sounds like a great upgrade. Wonder if the head/shower facilities have been upgraded too.
Has Royer s/v Skye
Speaking for both Eric and myself, we are like two kids waiting for Christmas to come! The place is going to ROCK!
Concerning facilities’¦. we will be upgrading the restrooms as soon as possible, and there will be a new accessible restroom near the laundry.
See ya in the Keys!
Kim Hess-Stone
Click Here To View the Keys Florida Cruisers’ Net Marina Directory Listing For Sombrero Marina
Boot Key Bridge - Click for Chartview
Before its removal, Boot Key Bridge, at Statute Mile 1195, spanned the western entrance to Boot Key Harbor, east of unlighted daybeacon #14.
The bridge is still there, but the drawbridge part has been removed. Still is a small opening where the span used to be which must be navigated. There also is a hanging powerline which limits boats with masts higher than 62 feet in height. the rest of the bridge is still there.
Kyllbob
Click Here To View the n Florida Keys Cruisers’ Net Bridge Directory Listing For Boot Key Bridge
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Boot Key Bridge
I’ve been coming here for two years with sailing students and have been moderatly satisfied with ‘˜what you get’. But the last two times we’ve come, they’ve charged me for my dinghy, even though we put it on deck after arrival. The showers and restrooms are routinely ‘˜out of order’ even after asking if they are open, happened last time, and being told that everyting was operational. On departing the next morning, the water was turned off, so we couldn’t top off our water tanks and didnt’ come back on until 11am. Guess that was in the fine print.
Unfortunately I’ll not give them another of my dollars. Not a user friendly place.
Capt. E
Newfound Harbor - Click for Chartview
Newfound Harbor provides the best collection of anchorages off Hawk Channel between Marathon and Key West. The channels are well marked, and any cruiser with a chart plotter and/or good DR navigation can find a host of good spots to drop the hook.
I was pleasantly surprised today while anchored out in Newfound Harbor in the FL Keys. We were on our way back from Dry Tortugas to Marathon, but the winds and seas were supposed to pick up so we pulled into one of our favorite anchorages in Newfound Harbor. It looked like we would be stuck here for a while and we were getting concerned about our holding tank. On Friday morning we hear a boat come by and ask if anyone is on board. We thought it was just someone being friendly, but when we look it is a boat marked as a pump-out boat. They gave us a free pump out funded by FL registration fees. They said all I had to do was register and I could get a pump-out every week, free, paid for by the state of FL. I filled out the simple form and they pumped me out at no cost, but they were happy when I tipped them. They said they offer this service from Islamarada to Key West, and their web site is http://po-keys.com/
I am very happy to see this happening in Monroe County and hope that this spreads throughout the world.
Ron Olson
Thank you so much for the brief on the Hawk channel pumpout! Living some distance away but planning on sailing through Florida next spring all I have been reading made one feel that conchs had had it with tourist and planned on making it as difficult as possible to sail without going outside! This story indicates that that thinking was just crazy, thank you so much.
Capt. Jerry Robbins
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Newfound Harbor
Boot Key Harbor
Captain Ward does not have contact information for Bobby the Viking, but she says that everyone in Marathon knows Bobby, because of his dinghy decorated as a Viking ship that he sails around the waters of Boot Key Harbor in Marathon. Captain Ward promises a phone number when she and crew return home.
We used Bobby the Viking last winter to dive and scrub the bottom of our trawler and he did a great job. I have not got his phone number at the moment but if you call on the net he will get straight back to you.
Sue Ward
October 22, 2013 [numbers confirmed]
I have now found Viking Bobby’s cell number from last year. It’s 303-887-7712. I also found a cell number for the Key Hopper Taxi service in Marathon which is 305-393-0146. Hope this is of some help.
Sue Ward
Snake Creek - Click for Chartview
For several years now, there’s been a concern about MLW depths on the Hawk Channel side of the Snake Creek Channel. (See /?p=105412) The shallow water is a real problem, as Snake Creek is the only really reliable route for cruising sized craft to cruise from the Florida Keys Inside Route to Hawk Channel, or the other way around, between Angelfish Creek and Channel Five. Captain Robinson’s observations confirm that shallow depths reported earlier are still present.
Went out with a handheld depthsounder yesterday Oct. 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm, one hour before low tide and measured 4.5′ on the hawk channel side just before the channel where the chart reads 4′. Measured 6′ on the bayside next to each of the red markers at 3:30 PM.
Jules Robinson
Snake Creek has been this shallow for years. Any sailing cruisers should be using Channel Five and never attempt Snake Creek.
Jim
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Snake Creek
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