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    • Comments on Transiting Angelfish, Creek Card Sound to Hawk Channel, Florida Keys

      Angelfish Creek - Click for Chartview

      I don’t think any channel in the Florida Keys has occasioned more comment here on the Cruisers’ Net than Angelfish Creek. For those who don’t already know, this creek provides a means to cruise from the Inside/Florida Bay Route (from Card Sound), to Hawk Channel and the briny blue. There has always been some question about depths along this route, and we have received many reports here on the Net about an underwater “rock,” near the point where the marked passage meets up with the deeper waters abutting Hawk Channel.
      Most of Captain Copeland’s comments below concern another subject, namely, why planing hull craft tend to transit Angelfish at high speed. Boy, if the props on my vessel cost $40K each, I might do the same thing, and then again, I might not!

      In re: to Angelfish Creek navigation: As a captain of a 50′ sport fish who navigates this creek frequently (not because I have a choice’¦I do not) with my 4’10’³ draft, I have seen many posts from other boaters who seem very frustrated with `big sportfishers’ who take this channel pushing high wakes or at high speeds.
      I would like to explain WHY this is the case:
      1. I will never take this channel under two hours before or after a low tide ‘“ particularly in a west wind or a full moon.
      2. The $2M boat has wheels which costs almost $40,000.
      3. The shallowest parts of the channel is at the eastern end (a rock ledge, yes’¦rock) and western (bayside) end (which is shoaljng). For us to get up on plane enough to make this passage, it is necessary for the large sport boats to go fast! There are only a few places in the creek itself where we can slow down in enough time to get up on plane again to get out.
      4. Believe it or not big sport boat wakes are less annoying when they are up on plane and not chugging.
      Please try and understand these boats also have the right to navigate this channel. And believe me, if we had a choice, we wouldn’t!
      J. Copeland

      Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To A “Navigation Alert” Position at Angelfish Creek Eastern Entrance

      Comments from Cruisers (1)

      1. Wes Abell -  November 11, 2015 - 9:57 pm

        As Capt. Copeland stated it is necessary for large sport boats to stay on top to transit this stretch of water… I to captain a 50+ foot sport fish and have a draft of 5′-3″ and always run through at 25 plus KTS. I sometimes will have to wait for the East channel to be clear before shooting though and every once and a while there is someone in a center console that just doesn’t get it and we will meet in the worse possible spot… I cannot stop as it would result in disaster, so please pay attention to the larger boats up on top transiting Anglefish creek, we’re not trying to show off, only trying to get through!

        Reply to Wes
    • Florida “Sojourner’s Permit” Explained

      A couple of years ago, we published complete instructions here on the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net about what a Florida Sojourner’s Permit is, and why it was/is so important. Well, it’s time to refresh that information here as the fall, 2012 transient season gets underway.
      First, here is the message, which originally appeared on the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association forum which prompted us to get off our duffs and bring this issue anew to the attention of the cruising community.

      If you plan on staying in Florida over 90 days, you need to consider getting a Sojourners permit. Most Florida tax collectors are not familiar with the program and when you go for yours, take along all the forms your will need. Permit is good for 11 months, cost us less than $125. Florida, as do all other states, limits the time you can spend there without registering your boat in their state.
      Go to http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html for more information.
      You should also refer to yourself as long-term cruiser, not live-aboard.
      Ron Matuska
      Dunedin, FL

      Now, why is it important to get a Sojourner’s Permit if you plan to have your vessel in Floridian waters longer than 90 days. There are at least two reasons, and one is referred to in Captain Ron’s message above.

      1. If your vessel is registered in another state besides Florida, you can operate in Floridian water for up to 90 days without a problem. HOWEVER, if your vessel is Federally Documented, and NOT ALSO state registered, you MUST register it with the state of Florida, or you may be ticketed immediately upon entering Floridian waters. Or, put another way, Federally Documented vessels MUST ALSO be state registered (either with Florida or another state), or you face the possibility of a ticket.
      By the way, it’s this onerous feature of Florida state law that used to allow the “Venice Water Nazi” to ticket boats coming and going in the city of Venice.
      If your vessel remains in Florida for longer than 90 days, even if it’s registered in another state, YOU MUST ALSO REGISTER IT IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA UNLESS YOU OBTAIN A SOJOURNER’S PERMIT! Conversely, iF you succeed in getting a Sojourner’s Permit in hand you will not have to fork over for a costly FL state registration (again, see below) for stays up to 11 months.
      My, my wasn’t that fun!

      2. With a Sojourner’s Permit, you will NOT be hassled to pay sales tax on your vessel. I know this sounds crazy, but if your boat has been owned out of state for less a year before being brought into Florida, and the state in which you purchased your vessel does not collect sales tax on purchases of pleasure boats, the Sunshine State will actually try to charge sales tax on your vessel’s purchase price, if you stay in Floridian waters longer than 90 days (without a Sojourner’s Permit). So, to avoid this ridiculous and expensive charge, get a Sojourner’s Permit. Again, crazy, I know!

      OK, so the above is why obtaining a Sojourner’s Permit is a really good idea. How does not obtain such a document?

      We are pleased to report that our good friend, Captain Mike Dickens at Paradise Yacht Sales and Service (Fernandina Beach, FL, http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/CruisingCenter2.html) provides what cruisers need to obtain one of these permits on his web site. Follow the links below.

      Sojourner’s Permit Form – http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87244.pdf

      Sojourner’s Permit Instructions – http://www.paradiseyachtsales.net/Sojourner1.pdf

      Hopefully, along with a little cash, that’s all you will need to cruise tax free in the Sunshine State for up to 11 months. Of course, if any member of the cruising community has found out DIFFERENTLY, WE NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU! Please send all your comments and accounts of your experiences directly to:

      CruisersNet@triad.twcbc.com

      Good luck and good cruising to all!

      Have question concerning this. Our boat is documented only as our state does not require a registration if doucumented. So this information says to aquire the Sojourner permit you need a copy of registration. What do we need to do for this? Thanks for any help on this.
      Susan Dawson S/V Colleen Mae

      In my original post I noted our Fl permit was good for 11 months. I am not sure if the period was related to when we purchased, Jan 2012, good until Dec 2012, or to some other criteria. You get the permits at a DMV / Tax collector office and in Florida, vehicle registrations end the month of your birthdate, and my birthmonth is December. Also, at the time we purchased the permit we were Illinois residents, our boat was registered in Delaware, and is USCG documented. We stayed in Florida from about Dec 1, 2011 until June 1, 2012. After cruising the east coast this summer, we left our boat in NJ for winter storage when we will continue north again.
      Ron Matuska

      And, here’s some valuable input from fellow nautical author, Captain John Kettlewell:

      Looking around at different county websites it is pretty clear that most say your boat must be state registered to get the Sojourner permit. Some states, like Massachusetts where I keep my boat, do not require state registration of documented vessels, so there is no real savings in hassle for me. I would have to first get a state registration before heading to Florida. In fact, I don’t believe Florida has any grace period for documented vessels–your boat has to be state registered somewhere to operate on Florida waters.

      From Manatee County here: http://www.taxcollector.com/contactapp/question_detail.cfm?question=498&category=3

      Yes, the State of Florida recognizes valid registration certificates and numbers from another state issued to visiting boaters for a period of 90-days on recreational boats only. You can operate your out-of-state registered boat on Florida waterways without obtaining a Florida registration/decal.
      However, if you reside in Florida for more than 90-days, you must either title and register your boat in Florida or purchase a Sojourner registration (if you plan on taking the boat back to your home state).

      To obtain a Sojourner registration, you must:

      1. Provide a copy of the out-of-state registration showing the boat details, out of state # and owner names.
      2. Complete Form 87244 Application for Non-Titled Boat

      However, the sales tax thing is also clear. Many of us will not owe sales or use tax even if we have to register in Florida, unless we bought the boat within the last six months and/or we are Florida residents:

      http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800005.pdf

      Under most conditions, use tax and surtax are due on boats brought into Florida within 6 months from the date of purchase. However, use tax may be due upon importation into Florida, under either of the following conditions:

      ‘¢ The boat belongs to a Florida resident; or
      ‘¢ The boat belongs to a corporation for the use of a corporate officer or director who is a Florida resident or who owns, controls, or manages a dwelling in Florida.
      John J. Kettlewell

      By the way, for some of us with older boats (30 years or more) Florida has an antique boat registration that is very cheap. I believe you are exempted from most of the annual registration fee. More information here: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87243.pdf
      JJK

      I’m reading and rereading the words and am thoroughly confused. We live in NC, purchased our boat in NC, paid the sales tax on our boat to NC, and annually pay property tax on our boat. Our boat is a USCG documented vessel ‘“ NC does not require state registration on USCG documented vessels. We plan to visit FL this season but for less than 90 days. Do we need a Sojourner’s Permit? I’m still not sure about the answer to this question.
      BMasinton

      Claiborne answers:
      OK, I have an answer for that one. Since you will be in Florida for less than 90 days, you do NOT need a Sojourners Permit.
      HOWEVER, your troubles are not over. FLORIDA REQUIRES STATE REGISTRATION EVEN THOUGH YOUR BOAT IS FEDERALLY DOCUMENTED. You have three bad choices.
      1. You can not state register your vessel, and hope you don’t get stopped in Florida, knowing that if you are, you WILL be ticketed!
      2. You can register your boat with the state of Florida, which, I’m told, is an expensive proposition
      3. You can register your boat in NC, even though our state does not require state registration for Federally documented vessels. Florida WILL accept NC (or any other state) registration, BUT you must have your state registration papers aboard, and put the appropriate sticker on your boat’s bow.
      As I said, no really good alternative, but, for my money, I would pick #3.
      Don’t shoot the messenger. That’s my take on your situation!

      After receiving the first message below, there was some question whether the state of North Carolina would state register a Federally Documented vessel. Turns out “titling” and “registering” are two very different creatures, at least in the Tar Heel state, and, as you will read below, it IS possible to “register” a documented boat in NC.

      Hi again
      I checked the NC Web site for vessel registration (which I use for our dinghy registration) and it’s curious to note that the lead questions on the VL-1 form are this:

      1) Is this vessel documented by the US Coast Guard Yes or No (If Yes, vessel cannot be titled)
      2) Is this vessel 14′ or longer, or a personal watercraft Yes or No (If Yes, vessel must be titled)

      Registration must be a different process than titling Hmmm
      My answer to both of these questions is Yes guess I’ll give them a call on Monday
      BMasinton

      Hi Claiborne ‘¦
      Here’s what we just learned from NC Wildlife Resources Commission – both on their Web site (http://www.ncwildlife.org/Boating.aspx) and by phone (1-800-628-3773). They will also take questions via email at
      vessels@ncwildlife.org.
      Actually the woman we spoke with chuckled and puzzled over why in the world we’d want to register our boat with NC if it’s already a USCG documented vessel! She did say that we couldn’t title the vessel – but if we wanted to pay $15 for 1 year (or $40 for 3 years), we needed to complete form VL1 (see link below), submit a copy of our USCG documentation paperwork, and they would get us registered.
      Here’s the link to the NC form VL1:
      http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Boating/documents/VL1Form.pdf
      So hopefully once that is done and we receive our registration number for NC, if we carry that paperwork and display our NC number on the bow of our boat, we won’t be pestered or ticketed by FL authorities – if we stay less than 90 days.
      By the way, we always carry our tax information on board.
      Is that your understanding, given this information?
      Thanks again for providing us your info – hopefully our follow-up will help others.
      Barb & Roy Masinton
      s/v Waterdog
      Oriental

      One suggestion to Captains Barb and Roy – see Captain Ted’s remarks below. Looks like it’s NOT a good idea to paint your NC registration numbers on your bow IF and only if your vessel is Federally documented!

      After reading some of this discussion last week I registered my documented vessel with North Carolina, we live in NewBern, for three years for a total of $60.00.
      We are heading to the Bahamas on the 15th but will bepassing through Flordia (very quickly).
      Newton Collyar
      S/V Bifrost

      Claiborne,
      You suggested putting registration numbers on a documented boat. That is against USCG documentation rules. Putting the registration STICKER on is OK, but not the state registration number on the bow.
      Second; some people get titling & registration mixed. If federally documented, that is your title. In that case, you CANNOT state TITLE, but you can state register a CG documented boat. The state will issue a reg number & sticker. You can use the reg number for paperwork but do not put it on the bow. The sticker should be sufficient for the water cops.
      Ted

      Yikes
      We’ve just reviewed the further post from Captain Ted and this may have answered our question of latest concern.
      We’re in the process of renewing our USCG certificate of documentation and there’s one paragraph on the form that states this:
      `If the vessel has been lost, sold, abandoned, destroyed, or placed under state numbering [and isn’t that what we’re about to request by registering our boat in NC?], the vessel owner must notify the National Vessel Documentation center in writing. If the Certificate of Documentation is available, it must be surrendered.’
      We did try to give the Documentation Center a call today (1-800-799-8362) to ask their advice, as we wish to retain our Certificate of Documentation ‘“ but they were closed for the holiday. We will call tomorrow. Meanwhile, we’ve not mailed a thing and won’t do so until we know for certain we are proceeding with our best interests in mind.
      Barb & Roy Masinton
      s/v Waterdog

      And, a very important final message from Captains Barb and Roy. As you will see, it IS possible to register their vessel in North Carolina, thereby avoiding having to register it in Florida, and STILL RETAIN their Federal Documentaton!

      Hi Claiborne and others!
      Here’s the next (and maybe last) installment in the search for answers to our sojourner’s permit questions. After talking today (10/9/12) to a documentation officer from the National Vessel Documentation Center in West Virginia (1-800-799-8362), she gave me the following advice and guidance: Yes, we can obtain a NC vessel registration number and not be in conflict with our Certificate of Documentation from the Coast Guard, provided we 1) do not title our vessel with NC, 2) do not affix any registration numbers or stickers to our vessel, 3) continue to follow all the rules applicable to a documented vessel. If we follow these 3 guidelines, we do not have to surrender our Certificate of Documentation. If we carry our NC registration paperwork on board while cruising in FL waters (for less than 90 days) we can demonstrate to officials that we have been responsible in paying fees to NC, and FL fees are not required and potential ticketing in FL will no longer be an issue. We are comfortable with this advice and look forward to our cruise down south this season.
      Thanks everyone for helping with answers and comments.
      Barb Masinton and Captain Roy
      s/v Waterdog

      Regarding the 90 days’¦
      is this 90 days per calender year?
      Lets say I enter Fl Dec 1st and leave for the Bahamas Jan 30. That’s 2 months. When I come back do I have 1 month or 2 left in my 90 days? And when I come back in the fall?
      How do they track your comings & goings? Do marinas like Fernandina Beach turn in reports to FWC? Bascule bridges?
      How heavy is the burden of proof of your entry into the state?
      Ted

      Comments from Cruisers (1)

      1. Don -  August 25, 2015 - 9:45 am

        I think this information is outdated. There is nothing in Florida state statutes about a “Sojourner” permit or registration. Indeed, the word “sojourner” does not appear anywhere in any state statute.

        Some counties mention registration for sojourners, but this is simply a temporary registration that is available without transferring title of your vessel to Florida. As far as I can tell, the fees are exactly the same as for “normal” registration.

        Of course, registration in Florida is pretty cheap. Probably less than the cost of taking a few friends out for a night on the town. If your boat is less than 40′ it’s about $120 per year. Up to 65′ in length, it is still less than $200.

        Reply to Don
    • Florida Marina Liveaboard Discussion

      For the last week or so, there has been a lively discussion on the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association forum (http://www.greatloop.org) about the issue of liveaboards, particularly as this issue relates to facilities in Florida. All of us at the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net are aware of the importance of this issue to the cruising community, and will soon make available a comprehensive, professionally researched list of marinas where liveaboards are welcome. Until that happy event, listen to what our fellow mariners have to say by following the link below! This discussion is just too lengthy to post in its entirety here.

      /florida-marina-liveaboard-discussion

      Be the first to comment!

    • Good Words for No Name Harbor Anchorage, AICW Statute Mile 1096

      No Name Harbor Anchorage is on the waters of the tadpole-shaped harbor, indenting the westerly banks of south Key Biscayne, near Cape Florida.

      Awesome spot! Strong storm passed us in the middle of the night from the southeast. It wasn’t a problem here. Very protected.
      Sara Wylie

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Anchorage Directory Listing For No Name Anchorage

      Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of No Name Anchorage

      Be the first to comment!

    • Thoughts on Florida Keys Cruising

      All I can say to Captain Pickelmann’s remarks below, is “HEAR, HEAR!!!!” See you at the Lorelei with a cold glass of Mount Gay rum in hand!

      The Keys win in my book. Islamorada – lunch at Lorelei, stop in at Worldwide Sportsman. Marathon – lunch at Keys Fisheries. Key West – snorkel trip on a sailing catamaran, Conch Train tour of the city. Eat at the Raw Bar or A&B Lobster house or at Bagatelle or at Blue Heaven or at the Pier House or at Hog’s Breath Saloon or…. Have a drink at Sloppy Joe’s. Have a drink at capt Tony’s. Sunset at Mallory Square followed by a world-class pub crawl along Duval St. (Don’t forget bail money.)
      There is a very real danger that you might never leave. It’s happened before!
      Regards,
      Randy Pickelmann
      Morning Star

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    • Florida Keys “No Anchorage Buffer Zones” Identified

      As part of the discussion of new Florida Keys Anchorage regulations (see /?p=96458), we noted:

      “3. In Marathon and Keys West, “no anchorage buffer zones” have been established around the city mooring fields.”

      This factoid prompted the following, well considered question from Captain Peter TenHaagen:

      Curious about the status of Sister Creek south of Boot Key Harbor as a legal anchorage spot?
      Peter TenHaagen

      That got us to thinking that we really should research the location and size of all the “no anchorage buffer zones” established by the new Florida Keys anchorage regulations. So, after some digging, below we have reproduced the wording from the actual ordinance:

      So, to answer Captain TenHaagen’s question directly, it looks as if the waters of Sister Creek, are NOT included in the “No Anchor Buffer Zones,” as these are more than fifty feet from the Boot Key Harbor mooring fields.

      And, finally, here is a very hard to read map, which, if you can see them, shows where the official mooring fields are located in Boot Key Harbor. This map does NOT show the “no anchorage buffer zones,” but clearly the waters of Sister Creek are more than 50 feet from the fields.
      Notice, HOWEVER, the map does show that Sister Creek IS PART OF THE MANAGED ANCHORAGE AREA, so, conceivably, the creek’s waters could be further regulated in the future!

      Not an expert on the area, but my recollection of Sister Creek is one of VERY limited swing room.
      Bill Dixon

      We anchor in Sister Creek Regularly to let the Boy Scouts on our Eco Adventure trips with Florida Seabase Kayak the amazing loop trail through Whiskey Creek. For a temporary anchorage it is fine, however you must be careful not to block the channel, there is a lot of boat traffic. There is also a strong tidal current.
      Captain Harold Ochstein

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    • What Constitutes “Secure” Overboard Discharge Valves in the Florida Keys

      As part of the discussion of new Florida Keys Anchorage regulations (see /?p=96458), I made the comment:

      “. . . for many years now, all of the Florida Keys (Monroe County) waters have been a NO DISCHARGE ZONE. That means, among other things, that ALL vessels must regularly pump out their waste tanks, and Lectra San type devices are NOT acceptable. And, along with these long-time regulations, comes the possibility of legal boardings by any law enforcement agency to make sure that overboard discharge vales are PADLOCKED SHUT and all other MSD regulations are being observed!”

      In response to these remarks, Captain John Cover chimed in with this well considered observation and question:

      Claiborne:
      In your comments you state law enforcement officials will be able to board vessels to insure overboard discharge valves are “padlocked shut”. I am not aware of a change in the Florida MSD regs that require “padlocking” as the only means of securing the valve. At last reading my impression is that the valve must be “secured”. I spoke to Lt. Dave Dupree (FWC Monroe County) a few years ago and he advised locking, wire ties, removal of the handle or similar solutions to prevent accidental discharge. Has there been a regulation change I am unaware of or is there one in the actual new proposed regulations?
      Thanks,
      John N. Cover,
      s/v Shadow,
      Hudson, Florida

      My reply:
      Captain John:
      No, as far as I know there has not been a change in the “secured” requirements of overboard discharge valves. I used the term “padlocking” because my research has consistently shown that just chaining the overboard valves is NOT sufficient, and can result in ticketing. I suspect your research is also correct, in that wire ties and removal of the handle would also be considered “secured.” However, with that being said, what we have always done while cruising in the keys is chain and padlock our overboard discharge valves. This plan has passed multiple inspections over the years.

      The US Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) lists several specifically acceptable means (not an exhaustive list if you read the language carefully) of securing an overboard discharge in a No Discharge Zone (NDZ) such as the Florida Keys. The applicable CFR can be found under:
      Title 33: Navigation and Navigable Waters
      PART 159’”MARINE SANITATION DEVICES
      Subpart A’”General
      Browse Previous
      § 159.7 Requirements for vessel operators.
      You can find the complete CFR language online at: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov

      `Secured’ also can be realized for those vessels with `key operated flushing to holding tanks’ if the key is removed from the system and stored safely away from the head.
      Capt. Ken Wright

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    • VERY IMPORTANT – New Florida Keys Anchoring Regulations Approved

      On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission approved the Monroe County anchorage regulations associated with the Florida Pilot Mooring Field Program. While the final version must still be approved by the Monroe County Board of Commissioners, that final nod would seem to be a mere formality. We conclude that, after all the many public forums, voluminous comments published here on the Cruisers’ Net and on other nautical forums, and a lot of GOOD work by our very special Florida Keys correspondent (and founder of BARR – Boaters’ Action Rights and Responsibilities), Captain Charmaine Smith Ladd, we have a new set of Florida Keys anchorage regulations which will almost certainly be in effect by the winter 2012 – 2013 cruising season! HOWEVER, as you will see, this is not nearly as onerous as it initially sounds!

      Click Here To Learn MUCH MORE About the New Florida Keys Anchorage Regulations

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    • More on Opposition to Mooring Pilot Program for Sunset Cove Anchorage, Keys Inside Route, Buttonwood Sound – Key Largo, FL

      Sunset Cove - Click for Chartview

      Sunset Cove is one of the most popular anchorages in the northern Florid Keys. This haven is located on the waters of southeastern Buttonwood Sound, in charted Sunset Cove, near statute Mile 1143 off the Florida Keys Inside Route.
      The excellent report below, written by Florida Keys Keynoter reporter Kevin Wadlow appeared on KeysNet.com and is reprinted here with his permission. KeysNet website is http://www.keysnet.com and is a good source of local perspective on all things in the Keys.

      KEY LARGO
      Boaters Oppose State Pilot for Sunset Cove
      A managed anchoring area proposed for Key Largo’s Sunset Cove fails to meet requirements for a state pilot program, says a staff report to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Monroe County’s draft ordinance to create several new managed anchoring zones reaches the FWC board at its Sept. 5 meeting in Tampa.
      FWC Division of Law Enforcement staff who reviewed the county plan endorsed it, “contingent upon the Sunset Cove Managed Anchorage Zone provision being removed.”
      A pilot program for five Florida coastal areas was enacted in 2009 to “explore potential options for regulating the anchoring or mooring of non-liveaboard vessels outside the marked boundaries of public mooring fields.”
      Sunset Cove lies about 50 miles from the nearest existing mooring field, FWC staff said.
      “Staff understands the Sunset Cove provision was originally added to the ordinance due to the amount of public comment received from residents” in a June 2011 meeting,” the report says. “Unfortunately, Sunset Cove is 45 to 50 miles from the Marathon mooring field… These were the mooring fields identified as part of Monroe County’s original application package for the pilot program.”
      “There is also strong opposition from the boater groups on this provision,” the report says.
      The FWC board members must approve local ordinances created under the pilot program. The board can amend or overrule its staff recommendation.
      Monroe County officials only recently received the FWC staff report, said local Marine Resources Administrator Rich Jones.
      The Keys ordinance also designates managed anchoring zones in the Lower Keys at Boca Chica Basin, Cow Key Channel and Key West Harbor; and in Marathon’s Boot Key Harbor and Sister Creek.
      “Monroe County did something unique” by requiring proof of monthly sewage pumpouts for boats in the managed zones, FWC staff noted. A photo used in the state report to illustrate septic problems shows a toilet seat positioned over an open hole in a boat’s deck, with ocean water visible below.
      Monroe County rules also would bar boats from the managed areas if they “exhibit pre-derelict vessel conditions” such as being unable to navigate, or appear to be in imminent danger of sinking. Of 39 comments received by the FWC on the Monroe County anchoring law, 18 were logged as “negative” with 12 being “positive.”
      Kevin Wadlow

      Click Here To View the Florida Keys Cruisers’ Net Anchorage Directory Listing For Sunset Cove

      Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Sunset Cove Anchorage

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    • Florida Keys Inside Route Discussion

      Over the week of August 13-18, several posts appeared on the T&T (Trawlers and Trawlering) Mail List concerning the general cruising characteristics of the Florida Keys Inside route. Those messages are reproduced below. Incidentally, the entire SSECN staff highly recommends the T&T list if you own one of these roomy, fuel efficient vessels.
      Just to add my 23 cents worth, I have always considered a 5-foot draft to be the cutoff for safe cruising of the Florida Keys inside route. On numerous occasions, I have sounded 5-feet directly between the markers in the Key Largo region, particularly where the main channel passes the marked entrance to Tavernier Creek.
      If your vessel draws 5-feet or preferably less, don’t let these soundings discourage you. Some of the most wonderful anchorages, not to mention the views, you will ever enjoy lie off the FLK inside route!

      Looking for info on the practicability of taking the inside route from Miami to Marathon.
      I draw 5 feet. What is the opinion of the boaters that have done this route. Is it doable?
      Thanks
      Larry

      Larry,
      We’ve done the inside route and we draw 4’9″. Never had a problem, but then we watch the water, not a screen. It is marked adequately. Neither Jill or I can recall anyplace where another 3″ would have made a difference. There is a tide down there, though I doubt it is much more than 2 feet. If those 3″ might make a difference, plan to transient at high tide during a new or full moon, might want to consider spring tides too.
      Rudy
      Briney Bug- Panama City, Fl

      Larry,
      I have gone the inside route from Miami to Marathon a number of times, both in Pooh (draft 4’8″) and my previous sailboat with 5′ draft. Should be little problem. Not to say the water isn’t skinny; we often are reading
      depths of 5.0 to 5.2 feet on parts of this route (shallowest is just north of Islamorada), but haven’t touched bottom.
      Steamboat Pass, just south of Islamorada used to be a problem, but this has been dredged and is now good for around 6 feet (deep water ;-).
      Mark Richter

      Sorry Larry, but I disagree. I carry 5′ draft and have soft grounded in the center of the channel on two different trips on the inside route several years apart. I won’t try it a third time.
      Paul

      Time of year can make quite a difference. In the winter, northers will blow water out of Florida Bay. But don’t let that discourage you. It’s wonderful cruising!
      Regards,
      Randy Pickelmann
      Morning Star

      The trick is to wear polarized sun glasses, use you eyes.
      The water is usually clear, and it looks scary shallow, it is, but with 5 ft u can make it.
      The channels are well marked. The tide is about 6 inches in the upper keys,wind can effect water levels more than the tide.
      Go for it!
      See you in paradise!
      Capt. Sterling

      I don’t know where Mr. Kennedy traveled in the ICW on the inside, we have found the inner passage from Miami to Spanish Key to be a chalky green only rarely clear. We obey the day markers backed up by GPS. If your draft is 6-plus you are cruising for a bruising. If you need Sea Tow they are not allowed to move you until the environmental police arrive. The fines are prodigious..
      We have made the trip back and forth seven times.at different times of the year. Mr. Kennedy obviously has had a different experience.
      One thing is beyond dispute If you need Sea Tow you are in bad trouble
      Peter Denton
      Susie Q
      42′ Draft 4′

      Now that I know that Captain Sterling runs a tourist boat in the Keys, I must defer to his greater experience. I guess I was there at the wrong time. But it remains true that if you are passing over water that is 4,5or 6 feet it is impossible to tell the difference even if the water is crystal clear. Several of the passes are that shallow. Call me naive but I advise extreme caution. Remember you do not have advantage of some one who has local Knowledge.
      Peter Denton
      Susie Q

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    • Good Words for Mangrove Marina, FL Keys Inside Route, near Statute Mile 1150

      Mangrove Marina is currently one of only three marinas (the other being Plantation Key Yacht Harbor) which offers plentiful transient dockage along the Florida Keys inside route, from south of Jewfish Creek to Islamorada. There is also a full service repair yard here. If your vessel can stand some 4 1/2 foot MLW depths, what’s not to like!

      Great new look at the marina great tiki hut happy hour bbq very helpful staff and great prices close to shops.
      Roger Lougheed

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Marina Directory Listing For Mangrove Marina

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    • Report from Sunset Cove Anchorage, Fl. Keys Inside Route, Buttonwood Sound – Key Largo, FL

      Sunset Cove - Click for Chartview

      Sunset Cove Anchorage is located on the waters of southeastern Buttonwood Sound, in charted Sunset Cove, near statute Mile 1143 off the Florida Keys Inside Route. And, as Andree points out, Buttonwood Sound lies west of US #1 Highway Marker 99.

      Buttonwood sound is at MM 99.
      I was anchored there for a few years. The dinghy dock was right off Bay side resort but now year 2012 there has been a fence put across the path, part of the `dock’ was the resort’s property. You can still dinghy there , it is a small
      space though off the dead end street. Snooks burned down since than and was rebuilt it is now reopened. It is a nice quiet anchorage, first row seat to fabulous sunsets and Snooks’ nice live band music.

      Sunset Cove falls under the new anchoring regulations that are part of the Monroe County Pilot Program. The main one folks there will have to deal with is proof of pumpout. Save your receipts and keep a pumpout log.
      John Kettlewell

      Click Here To View the Florida Keys Cruisers’ Net Anchorage Directory Listing For Sunset Cove

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    • Advice on Anchor Choice for Thursday Cove Anchorage, AICW Statute Mile 1132

      Thursday Cove Anchorage - Click for Chartview

      This neat little anchorage lies just off the Florida Keys Inside/ICW route, immediately north of Jewfish Creek. You don’t want to be caught here with fresh northerly winds, as we were one inky black night. You can’t take my word for it – it’s a really bad idea! HOWEVER, during southerlies, this is a GREAT spot that we really like!

      I found here bad holding in mangrove mud mixed with leaves. Perhaps you can do better with a plow anchor.
      Charles

      Bottom is mostly turtle grass, which is difficult for most anchors to penetrate. I agree that this is NOT the place to be in any kind of a norther.
      Julie Stocksdale

      Pumpkin Key - Click for Chartview

      Nearby is Pumpkin Island that may be a better alternative.
      Always FOR SAILtoo

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Anchorage Directory Listing For Thursday Cove Anchorage

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      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Key Anchorage Directory Listing For Pumpkin Key

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    • Praise For Mangrove Marina (FL Keys Inside Route, near Statute Mile 1150)

      Mangrove Marina is currently one of only two marinas (the other being Plantation Key Yacht Harbor) which offers plentiful transient dockage along the Florida Keys inside route, from south of Jewfish Creek to Islamorada. There is also a full service repair yard here. If your vessel can stand some 4 1/2 foot MLW depths, what’s not to like!

      My wife and I have lived here three years. It is a great Marina, close to shopping, hospital and other amenities.
      Great staff and enjoyable people.
      Jeff Hughes

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Marina Directory Listing For Mangrove Marina

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    • Shoaling Reported On Yacht Channel Near Sprigger Bank, north of Long Key Viaduct

      Sprigger Bank is located on the eastern edge of Florida Bay, next to the border of the Everglades National Park and is almost due north of the Long Key Bridge. Its northern tip is marker by flashing green marker #5. Yacht Channel is southwest of Arsenic Bank and is marked by flashing red marker #2 and flashing green marker #1. Sprigger Bank is northwest of Yacht Channel.

      Cruising News:
      In transiting from Channel 5 to Cape Sable on July 15th, we passed northbound through the Yacht Channel without incident and then ran along just inside the park boundary towards Sprigger bank. We found 4-1/2 foot water that was charted at 7, so we moved further east from the boundary where we found 5 to 6. It didn’t seem like a wind-driven tide because elsewhere on our travels in that area depths were running about a foot over what was charted. Feedback from others recently taking this route would be helpful.
      John Byrne

      Noticed 5 1/2 on Sun 08 Jul 12 about 2:00 pm. Sorry cannot give tide at that time.
      GP Shepard

      We traveled through this route in May of this year and also saw shallow depths (5′ and less). This has been the case every time we have used this route.We do stay away from the marks. Since we draw 5′, we have decided that it must be ‘˜grass’ causing invalid readings.
      Jackie

      I draw almost 5′ and regularly see 6′ between Yacht Channel and Springer [sic] Bank. My waypoint for this transit is 1 mile to the NE of the Springer Light. WPT SpringerBank ‘“ N24 55.299 W80 55.797
      Rick J

      Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Sprigger Bank and Yacht Channel

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    • Report from Shell Key Anchorage and Mooring Field, off of Florida Bay

      Shell Key Anchorage and Mooring Field is a series of 5 five mooring buoys off the Shell Key’s northwesterly shoreline, maintained by the State of Florida.

      We had good holding here in 5-15 knots from ESE through SW. Nice quiet anchorage that was almost bug-free too.
      John Byrne

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Western Florida Anchorage Directory Listing For Shell Key Anchorage

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    • Good Report from Pilot House Marina, Key Largo, FL – off Hawk Channel

      The Pilot House Marina is located on secluded Lake Largo just minutes from downtown Key Largo. This choice location borders on John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park, an underwater park famous among snorkeling and diving enthusiasts. SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS NET SPONSOR, Pilot House Marina, is accessed from the Hawk Channel side of the Key Largo. The entrance canal cuts west towards charted “Lake Largo,” and Pilot House guards the intersection of the canal and lake.
      This is really a great spot, with MANY improvements having been made over the past year or two. The SSECN is very proud to have these good people as a sponsor!

      The “I Love Lucy” is presently in Key Largo. We have great diving and snorkeling. We are at the pilot house marina, and they are very [cruiser] friendly,having a [cruisers’] lounge with a book exchange and large screen tv.
      Ed & Lucy Guillard

      Both Ed and Lucy of `I Love Lucy’ are wonderful people to be around. They are always positive and enjoying life. This is one of the reasons we at the Pilot House love `Cruisers’ in general and why we strive to make Cruisers comfortable during your stay at Pilot House Marina, in the heart of Downtown Key Largo’¦the Dive and Fishing Capitol of the World. Our latest improvement for Cruisers’¦.A covered outdoor lounge for potlucks, socializing or just plain lounging around! Warm Regards’¦.Don Brown

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Marina Directory Listing For Pilot House Marina

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    • Anchoring in Rodriguez Key Anchorage (Hawk Channel – Key Largo)

      Rodriguez Key Anchorage lies to the north of Rodriguez Key, off Hawk Channel, and northwest of marker #37. This is one of the only anchor down spots on the Hawk Channel side of the Florida Keys north and east of Channel Five.

      My wife and I have spent 6 nights at anchor behind Rodriquez Key over the last 4 cruising seasons as we moved from and to Marathon in the Keys. The main issue for us was the sea grass and how it made anchoring difficult. We learned from experience that the best practice was to find a large area of sand drop the anchor and pay out the chain to the desired amount. Once done we backed down and set the anchor. Our usual practice in other anchorages was to begin backing down as the anchor touched bottom. At Rodriquez, that technique only gathered a large amount of grass and an anchor not setting. We had more than a few nights with 15kn of wind and we never dragged.
      If you have a dog to walk, It is a long ride to the NW for a place for puppy relief.
      John

      what an informative post -. thank you
      s/v ZIG-ZAG

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Anchorage Directory Listing For Rodriguez Key Anchorage

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    • Public Meeting

      The FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission) has scheduled a public meeting, to be held in Tallahassee, FL (see below), on 7/11/12, to consider the Monroe County (Florida Keys) proposed anchorage regulations, as part of the Keys participation in the Florida Pilot Mooring Field Program. ALL cruisers who can possibly attend this event, PLEASE do so!

      Hello,
      We are scheduling a public meeting to discuss the Monroe County Anchoring and Mooring Ordinance for Wednesday, July 11th, at the FWC Bryant Building in Room 272 [in Tallahassee, Florida – editor]. We have scheduled the meeting for 8:30 a.m. until 12:30 p.m. Attached is the FAW notice, that will be published next week, that has the address and time of the public meeting. There will be representatives from Monroe County ready to answer questions from any organizations or individuals that would like to know more about the ordinance.
      We are planning on being able to take the Monroe proposed ordinance to the September 5-6th FWC Commission Meeting in Tampa. To accomplish this we will need to coordinate the review, conduct the public meeting, and have a 2 week internet posting of the ordinance to collect public comment. I anticipate posting the proposed ordinance on our FWC website the first full week of July. I will send out notification of that posting when it goes live on the internet. I have attached the current Monroe Co. ordinance language for your review prior to the public meeting and internet posting. Thank you.
      Tom
      Captain Tom Shipp
      FWC / DLE / Boating and Waterways

      Note that the proposed ordinance requires proof of pumpout, which I believe is a gross overreach. The anchoring and mooring pilot program law states that it is to regulate anchoring, not pollution controls or equipment onboard. These things are already covered by federal and state regulations. Once again, the anchoring and mooring pilot program is leading to further complication on the water, and a hodge-podge of laws in Florida that few transient boaters will even be aware of.
      John Kettlewell

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    • A Pleasant Night at Rodriguez Key Anchorage (Hawk Channel – Key Largo)

      Rodriguez Key Anchorage lies to the north of Rodriguez Key, off Hawk Channel, and northwest of marker #37. This is one of the only anchor down spots on the Hawk Channel side of the Florida Keys north and east of Channel Five.

      On 6/4/2012, we spent the night behind Rodriguez Key. It was a pleasant experience, we found plenty of water getting in there, you just have to pay attention to your chart and the shoaling off the southeastern tip of the island. The shoals are actually very well marked with floating buoys, but be careful because they extend out quite a bit further. It’s easy to see the color change in the water if you come in during daylight hours. We got there just before dark and found several boats already on the anchor, but there was still plenty of room and we dropped the hook in about 7′ of water. The wind kicked up out of the southwest during the night, but we were reasonably well protected. Not sure I’d want to be there in a howling northeaster!
      David Ogle
      S/V Double Decker
      35′ Cheoy Lee Robert Perry Sloop

      Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s Florida Keys Anchorage Directory Listing For Rodriguez Key Anchorage

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