Well, it’s about time. Over the past two years, we have had multiple reports about shoaling along the northern edges of this important inlet. Now, as soon as the dredging project, linked below, is complete, all this will hopefully be only a bad memory for a long time to come.
Hello Claiborne,
Saw this in paper yesterday FYI.
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/jan/14/gordon-pass-dredging-project-underway/
Kevin J. Hopper
The string of messages below is copied from the T&T (Trawlers and Trawlering) mail list, which, as always, we HIGHLY recommend as an adjunct to the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net. Anyway, perhaps these words of wisdom from our fellow cruisers might help to save some of us a bit of money, or at least a bit of confusion!
A broker told me , as a selling point, that if I use a “broker” to sell my Florida boat, and then use a “broker” to buy the next boat, that I would be able to save the sales tax on the value of what my boat sold for.He claimed that was only doable with a broker.
Anyone have any knowledge of this?
See you in Paradise!
Capt Sterling
I’m not convinced he is representing the matter entirely truthful.
According to Florida law, the purchase of your new vessel and the trade-in of your old vessel must be consummated in one single transaction.
Your trade-in vessel must be placed into dealer inventory for resale.
http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800006.pdf
Ryan
I have first experience with this in Washington State. It worked here.
Cheers –
Peter
Florida brokers can reduce the sales tax due for a buyer by subtracting the selling price of the trade-in vessel therefore making the total amount taxable the difference between the selling prices.
This must be properly documented and executed. If you play by the rules, the savings can be significant.
Judy
But, the same does not hold true if an individual trades with another individual…correct?
RC
A vessel may be traded in towards the purchase of another vessel with the resulting sales tax savings only through a Florida registered and licensed yacht broker or dealer. It must be a sale and purchase by a Fl. broker/dealer in a single simultaneous transaction. This answers the questions of FSBO and trade in with intention of delayed purchase.
Judy
Well — perhaps it could if done correctly. If you are trading a $60,000 boat for an $80,000 boat, it seems to me that you could sell your boat for $1,000 and buy the other boat for $21,000. Just a thought.
Alan
All this sales tax thru brokers assumes the boat will stay in Florida and you are a Florida resident. You have, I think, 90 days to get out of Florida if you are not a Florida resident and you avoid Florida sales tax altogether. I bought privately in Florida and left in 2 weeks; no Florida sales tax.
Ed
But I believe in that situation you are liable to your state of residence for the sales tax. If they discover your purchase and if they realize you did not pay Florida sales tax they’ll send you a bill
for it. There was a lot of turmoil some years back on a similar issue regarding Internet sales.
Marty
Florida has extended the Sales Tax Exemption from 90 days to 180. So yes, if you buy a boat in Florida through a licensed broker, you can stay in the state for 180 days without paying sales tax, certain conditions apply.
But I think the point of the original post is that if you are buying a boat in Fl. and required to pay sales tax, trade-in under certain conditions can help save the sales tax total due.
Judy
I bought privately in Florida and left in 2 weeks; no Florida sales
tax.”
I just caught this mistake. Private buyers must pay sales tax in
Florida!
It is only licensed brokers that can offer the Affidavit for Sales Tax Exemption.
If someone bought a boat privately in Fl. without paying sales tax, I would recommend seeking advice from a Florida maritime attorney if you plan to return to Fl. or if you plan to sell it to a buyer who might cruise Florida.
Judy
Just so there’s no confusion in terminology and to clear up a minor point.
The exemption for a purchaser in Florida who is going to remove the purchased boat from the state applies even to private sales. Florida licensed brokers are required by the state to collect the sales tax due, unless a specific exemption applies (in the situation being discussed, removal from Florida within the “grace” period – Judy says it’s now 180 days). The seller in a private sale is not required to collect the sales tax; the burden is on the buyer to pay the sales tax (if the boat isn’t exempt).
The tax paid to the “other” state where the boat is going to be taken after the purchase is a _USE_ tax, not a sales tax. Generally speaking, a state’s USE tax is the same percentage as it’s SALES tax.
This is generally true in any state that has a sales tax or use tax. The exemption period may vary as well as the tax rates.
I won’t go into any more of a discussion on this here, but just wanted to clear up some misperception that has already creeped into the several posts on this topic. There’s lots of info about the subject of taxes (both sales and use) on the internet and in the archives.
Bob and Judy
Bottom line — When you go to register your vessel, you will either pay sales tax at time of sale, or you will pay sales tax when you attempt to register your vessel in your home state.
There are two ways to reduce your sales tax burden — via a trade in which reduces the taxable amount (because you already paid tax on the trade in), or by purchasing the boat for export (i.e. forming a corporation in the Cayman Islands that purchases the boat). Going the offshore route has its advantages, but unless the boat is a high dollar item, the fees associated with maintaining offshore ownership often outweighs the tax advantages of doing so.
Gone are the days where you can cheat the guvmint out of their share. They will find out whether you paid or not and they *will* collect.
Ryan
There is no “exemption” anywhere.
You will either pay sales tax in the state in which you purchase the vessel or you will pay sales tax in the state in which you register the vessel, but one way or the other, you *will* pay sales tax. Which state you pay in is determined by whether your state and the state in question have a reciprocity agreement in place. Some states do; others do not.
Here are the rules for Florida:
http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800006.pdf
If you are from out of state and buy from a broker, the broker will not collect sales tax with the caveat that you get the boat out of Florida within either 90 or optionally 180 days if you purchase an extension decal.
This does not absolve you of your sales tax burden however. When you attempt to register the boat in another state, they will want to see proof that sales tax has been paid. Since you paid no sales tax in Florida, you will have no proof of same and will be required to pay sales tax in your state in order to successfully register your vessel.
If your state requires the payment of sales tax in conjunction with the purchase of a vessel, you *will* pay that sales tax, regardless of which other state you purchased the boat.
It is for this very reason that you will often see boats advertised “not for sale to US citizens while in US waters.” The boat was originally purchased by an offshore shell corp. or some other offshore entity for the purposes of avoiding taxation. If the boat were to be sold in the US, taxes would have to be paid by all parties. Since the seller doesn’t want to pay those taxes, he can only sell the boat to another offshore entity.
Unless you take your registration offshore, you are obligated to pay.
Ryan
The string below is copied from the T&T (Trawlers and Trawlering) mail list. Once again, this list is a WONDERFUL adjunct to the Cruisers’ Net. If you have a trawler type vessel, we suggest joining this happy throng without delay.
Anyway, the subject of the messages below is the so-called, “Basin Anchorage” adjacent to Gasparilla Island, and the village of Boca Grand (where, incidentally, my first-rate, first-mate and I spent all of the last week). This is a very popular haven, with superb shelter and reasonably easy dinghy dockage. Swinging room is at a bit of a premium, and many tie their stern of to the mangroves. This is, strictly speaking, illegal, but many do it anyway.
There are also some “derelict” vessels in the anchorage, but you will also find any number of fellow cruisers as well.
If you do anchor here, don’t fail to go ashore and check out the village of Boca Grande. It’s one of the last, little pices of real, old Florida left! If you are feeling affluent, have dinner at the Gasparilla Inn. The cuisine is some of the best anywhere, anytime, but it’s NOT inexpensive. Another good choice is Temptations Restaurant.
However you get there, Boca Grande is well worth a visit. Tell them we sent you!
I noticed this anchorage on Active Captain where they talked about tieing stern to the mangroves…a number of sailboats in the satellite view were obvious so it seems the draft at anchorage is not an issue.
Well, today I was in the area by rubber tires and noted that there is obvious room there and apparently good draft to get in based on nearby marinas and the boats in the same area. Looks like half the boats have been there too long!
Does anybody have experience with this bayou and what depths are expected in the anchorage (near the mangroves)?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim:
I anchored there about a year ago. The only problem with draft is getting in. Once you make the turn to starboard from the entrance channel there is a place where it can be as low as 5′ at low tide. Once past this spot it opens up and the draft is about 8′. Drop your bow anchor in the middle and then back towards the mangroves and tie your stern.
Yes there are a few derilicts and long term live aboards. Boca Grande is a cute little high end town, but access is free to cruisers. There is a public dinghy dock at the north end and the walk to town is about a half mile.
David
Jim,
I wish I had a dollar for every night I’ve spent there. I don’t know what kind of boat you are driving but I used to take my 5′ draft sailboat in there
without incident. The bigger concern is the approach. As you enter Boca Grande’s entrance channel, you will have to either follow the marked channel to port and continue to the marinas or take the stbd. branch and go to the basin in question. As you go to the right, following the seawall that borders the golf course, the water shoals. Depending on your draft, you might need to do this at mid-tide or better. Once you get past this shallow area there is good water the rest of the way and you will almost always see a big boat or two in there. Keep your ears open for Mark’s floatplane. He keeps his Maule pulled up on shore in there and it is always a surprise to cross paths with him!
Just a few words about the dock. These are referred to as the “Guide Docks” since they are used by the fishing guides to pick up and drop off clients. Actually I think that half of them are owned by The Pink Elephant for the use of their lunch or dinner patrons. Don’t obstruct the slips. If you take your dinghy in there just slip around to the end and no one will complain. Watch the oysters on the roots of the mangroves.
Regards,
Randy Pickelmann
MORNING STAR
lying in Clearwater, FL
The exchange below is copied from the AGLCA mail list. I thought the various weather opinions in this exchange would be equally valuable here on the Net’s “Western Florida” Cruising News section.
This is a call for opinions on the best time of the year to cruise SW Florida via Tampa south to Marathon and back up the east coast through
Okeechobee and back to Tampa. We trailer from Lake Lanier, GA.
Worth and Margaret
Aneseasia
My opinion is March 15 thru July. Earlier is still chilly in Tampa. Later is hurricane season. The hurricane season starts June 1st, but August and September are the most active. We did the trip in a 27 Monterey Cruiser also.
Alan Lloyd
Author, Great Loop Navigation Notes
Hi,
It is , in my humble opinion, the late fall, Cold fronts don’t ususally get bad till Christmas week, not a lot of touists, cooler at nite.
See you in Paradise!
Capt Sterling
Best time to cruise SW Florida ‘“ Thunderstorm season is mid June to mid September. SW Florida bills itself as the thunderstorm capital of the US. We have lived here for 20 years and can attest to storms being the most severe we have experienced in our lives. The heat and himidity also make cruising without AC very uncomfortable during these months. Cold fronts bring chilly temperatures from mid December to the end of January. These fronts also bring strong northerly winds which blow the water out of many already shallow coastal areas leaving them with tide levels from 1 to 2 feet below MLW. That leaves November which is usually excellent; similar to September in the Chesapeake. Also, February and March which have cold fronts but not usually as strong as those in January. There are many beautiful mild sparkling days between the fronts in these months. To me, the best months are April and May. These are usually just perfect.
Rick Parish
Pelican Bay is a very popular anchorage on the Western Florida coastline. The bay indents the back (eastern) side of undeveloped Cayo Costa Island. This body of land sits just south of Boca Grande Pass, and can be accessed directly from the Western Florida ICW’s passage through Pine Island Sound.
Usually, the only trick to successfully anchoring in Pelican Bay is the MLW entrance depths you will encounter. I have personally sounded as little as 4 1/2 feet here at low tide, while some others have claimed to find no more than 4 feet. In fact, you must know where to enter in order to maintain these soundings. Some of the answers to Captain Jim’s questions below deal with this very subject.
In spite of these difficulties, a fair weather weekend will find many fellow cruisers swinging happily on the hook in Pelican Bay! See you there!
Can a 4.5 foot draft get into Pelican Bay? (Cayo Costa near Useppa/Cabbage Key)
I tried yesterday but didn’t find depth to be comfortable. was stirring when we backed out….and I’m still learning to deal with the skinny Florida waters!
Jim
Jim,
I used to take my 5′ draft sailboat in there all the time. Put your right foot on the beach. The deep water is that close. Before you get to the end of the beach, about 3/4 of the way in, turn left and head toward the rangers’dock. If you have a chart plotter, it will show you the shallow spots to avoid. There is a 9′ deep hole past the ranger’s dock.
Regards,
Randy Pickelmann
MTOA #3694
MORNING STAR
I have been in there several times with my 4.5 foot draft. When you head in from the ICW marker which is now 74 (I think) stay to the extreme right when you approach the entrance. If it seems that you are too far right you probably are in the right place’¦almost on the bank. Once in look at your chart for the deepest water. In the season you can expect to see several dozen boats of all sizes and drafts anchored. It is a very popular spot. The only tricky part is the entrance.
RC
NT 42
Punta Gorda
As RC said, head east from the ICW around R74. There is a Florida-type speed zone sign at the north shore of the entrance, which is easily visible from the ICW. Use that sign as a guide. Head for it, and run to about 50 ft of it. Then turn slightly to port to parallel the north shoreline of the opening between Cayo Costa and Punta Blanco Island. Stay about 50 ft off the beach there. You will undoubtedly think you’re too close to the shore, but that line carries 8 ft or more into Pelican Bay. As you pass by the beach, visually locate (about 11:30 to your course) and aim toward the government docks at Cayo Costa. Note that the water depth will shallow to around 6 1/2 ft along that rhumb line, but you won’t have any trouble. When you get to the area of the docks, MAKE SURE TO USE the newest charts of the bay to navigate. There are older paper charts around that do not show the area correctly. The newer charts show a 9 ft pool in the area to the south and east of the docks in the ceter of Pelican Bay. If you have that chart, you cal also navigate a bit further south, and then turn northeast past a spit of land that comes off Punta Blanco Island to the east. On the east shore, the water is deep all the way up to the mangroves. Watch your depth sounder, and Tuck yourself up there in 10 ft of water for an excellent storm anchorage. If you need help in the area, contact the rangers at Cayo Costa. They can and do arrange for everything up to, and including, air evac.
Peg and Jim Healy
aboard Sanctuary
Currently north for the Holidays
It has been YEARS since I tried Pelican Bay. This was basck when my late husband and I were SAILORS witha 4′ draft. We were the last ones ‘˜in’ for a yacht club weekend and I guess that was a ‘˜good thing’ albeit embarassing! We ran aground even though we thought we were carefully following directions! At least the boats already anchored well inside were able to then tell us what to do.
Following the right shore closely as described is good but rying to figure when to make that sharp turn to port and for how long’¦well, that’s another thing! Also, the whole cruise was a near disaster, we lost our dinghy, watched as she slowly drifted astern’¦luckily we roused our friends who ‘˜caught it’ for us. Then, when we started off to the coctail party, realized we were dragging anchor’¦then the whole RAFT of boats where the party was, made the same discovery! That entire bay is very shallow AND has a GRASS BOTTOM! Choose your anchor accordingly! We later spend an miserable stormy night anchor-watching.
Other than that, it’s a neat place from which to explore. At the south end of Cayacosta is ‘˜Lover’s Lane’ a dinghy-sized passageway through the mangroves to the south end of the beach. It is fun and if you’re interested, it IS an unproclaimed ‘˜nude beach’. Enjoy! Very unpopulated!
There are some options however. Try going to starboard as you enter Boca Grand’s southern access and go into the bayou there. You drop a for’d anchor then back into the mangroves and tie off the stern to the mangroves. Dinghy is a MUST for this and help is needed! With luck you can dinghy across to the dock and go ashore to a fabulous restaurant, Pink Elephant. Unfortunately the fishermen seem to have dibbs on that dock’¦
To your stern, beyond the row of mangroves, is the golf course which is popular with the Bush family and the Duponts who occupy a large compound on the island.
Another favorite option is anchoring out in the halfmoon bay just west of the private island just south of Pelican Bay and directly across from Cabbage Key. Brain freeze there, sorry, but you can’ t go on the island anyhow unless you have an ‘˜IN’. From that ancorage you can still explore all the places mentioned above. I don’t care for the restaurant at Cabbage KEy but
most do. When I used to go there the harbor master was one nasty sob. Don’t know about now’¦I’ve been in THAT ancorage too in a storm, not nice so watch you weather! HAvea a great time, I sometimes miss being there! PS the marinas on Gasparilla IS aka Boca Grande are very expensive.
Marge Griffith
The two Jewfish Key anchorages (see links below) can be accessed directly off the Western Florida ICW, hard by the Waterway’s intersection with Longboat Pass. Even though, as you will read below, dinighy landing is no longer as convenient here, these are still great spots to drop the hook!
It’s been a couple of years since we’ve anchored in the waters adjacent to Mar Vista and Moore’s Stone Crab Restaurant. Same beautiful water, scenery, and protection ‘¦ a wonderful waveless anchorage even in 20 knots of breeze. Still the same anchoring issues with the relatively deep bowl, numerous boats, and current ‘¦ nothing that two anchors does not solve. Two items of note. There is a town ordinance now that prohibits tying off to the town dock ‘¦ very convenient in the past. There is a small beach some 30 yds south of the town dock where dinks can be put ashore but it was convenient in the past not to get your shoes wet when going ashore (temps are in the 50’s today giving special meaning to `convenient’). A second item is that the upscale grocery that was within easy dinghy or walking distance is now permanently closed ‘¦ a liquor store has replaced it ‘¦ less useful for those looking to do a little restocking.
Enjoy!
Paul and Mary
S/V Merry Sea
Pelican Bay is one of the most popular anchorages between the “Miserable Mile” and Venice. It lies just south of Boca Grande Pass, and cuts in behind Cayo Costa State Park. Entrance depths can be a bit thin at low water. I’ve often found 4 1/2 foot soundings at this tide level.
I was directed to this anchorage while moving my Watkins 27, Namaste, from the northern end of Charlotte Harbor to Ft. Myers beach. on June 5th. 2009. We had just came through an afternoon squall while cross the harbor. Had a wonderful experience and will return. Getting into the harbor is a bit tricky from the north end due to shoaling.
Donn Brown
Below is more superb marina and anchorage recommendations from Captains Tom and Sue (copied from the AGLCA mailing list), this time stetching south from the “Miserable Mile” to Little Shark River.
5. If you come east across the ‘miserable mile’ and turn to stbd (south) rather than north to the waterway, you have very close by the very protected Port Sanibel Marina (239-472-8443). Turn to port at marker G 11 and enter the Punta Rassa channel. Near the marina (easy walk) is the Lighthouse restaurant.
6. Ft Myers Beach — southbound on the ‘inside’ before the fixed bridge (vert clear 65′) is Moss Marine (239-765-6677) to stbd (fixed docks), with a casino boat that operates out of their facility. USCG station just across the channel. After passing under the bridge you have a terrific mooring field, priced in the $12 to $13 a day range. No longer any anchoring in this area, with the balls controlled by the city of Ft Myers Beach but operated by Mantanzas Inn. Call 239-463-9258 when you enter (no reservations) and from our experience they do not monitor any VHF channel. They have a good dinghy dock near the Mantanza Inn restaurant under the west side of the bridge. There are 5 restaurants you can dinghy to from this location. On the east side of the mooring field and south just beyond the shrimp boat fleet is Salty Sams Marina (239-463-7333) with floating docks, fuel and the regular amenities. The terrific Parrot Key restaurant is located here also.
7. Heading south on the Gulf after Ft Myers Beach is Big Carlos Pass, and a good anchorage with a lunch stop you can dinghy to. As of October ’09 you could enter easily with up to a 4′ draft. Some large sport fish boats & trawlers come thur here from just north on the GIWW, so water depth is typically sufficient for many boats. Bridge (vert clr 23′) opens on request. The outside green marker actually is located south of the channel entrance approx 6/10 ‘s of a mile offshore, and you need to be very careful to locate the channel markers when entering. Anchor east of the bridge on the south side of Coon Key. Dinghy for lunch to “Flippers” on the south shore near R2 between the two mid rise bldings.
8. Fish Tale Marina(239-463-3600) – Enter thru Big Carlos Pass and turn north(to port) on the GIWW. Turn to port at the frst channel to the left near G 59, and steer at idle speed down the channel to FishTale. Call ahead. Great bar/restaurant on the premises.
9. Wiggins Pass – County run fuel dock (diesel & gas) on the north side of the 3 high rise condos after entering the channel. 10 cents a gal discount if Boat US member, and is normally the lowest fuel prices on the Florida west coast. Channel is well marked and dredged last year to 7′ – 9’, but need to follow a zig zag pattern among the markers when entering. Call Pelican Isle Yacht Club Harbormaster on VHF 16 before entering for local updated knowledge.
10. Naples – Gordon Pass entrance. You have City Dock Marina, plus the mooring balls just south of the docks as of October were installed and being used. There is also Naples Yacht Club and Naples Boat Club down toward the city, but usually in the Winter months do not take reciprocals. Good anchorages in the various bays among the homes in Port Royal (to port) after entering Gordon Pass.
11. Marco Island – good protected anchorage—-when entering the main channel to Marco from the Gulf, head east to marker R 12 and turn into Collier Bay. Entrance always looks tight, and current can be running fast depending on tide, but depth is good. I have seen 65 motor yachts enter here. Follow marked channel (stay in channel!) around to Smokehouse Bay and anchor to the north of the Esplanade Marina (239) 394-6333; which also has very good transient dockage within walking distance to shopping, restaurant(s) and a large Publix’s grocery store across the street. The marina as of 6 months ago still allows boat anchoring to bring dinghys for docking.
12. Marco Island Yacht & Sailing Club (239-642-2531) east on the river near the bridge on the sbd side takes transients—nice facility w/pool.
If you have Skipper Bob “Crusing the Gulf Coast”, there is mention of other anchorages in the area.
13. On south you can enter Indian Key Pass heading in to Everglade City. Without going all the way into the city there is a very good anchorage that will hold a number of boats in Russell Pass near marker 7…turn to port.
14. If you do not want to jump down to Marathon or Key West from here, stop at Little Shark River for a night, and anchor in the area of marker R 4.
Regards,
Tom & Sue
m/v Marbles
There’s some GREAT cruising advice on anchorages and marinas in Captains Tom and Sue’s note below. This is a portion of a message from this cruising duo which appeared on the AGLCA (American Great Loop Cruisers’ Assocation) mail list. I’ve posted the remainder of their recommendations on other parts of the Net’s “Western Florida” Cruising News section.
1. From R 92 proceed at idle speed around cattle Dock Pt to a nice anchorage in Glover Bight to stbd. Good depths for sail and power. You will notice a new hotel on your north side (planned to open Nov 2009) that is part of the Tarpon Cove Marina facility. With an outboard (or rowing), you can dinghy to #2 & #3 below.
2. Next to the above anchorage is the Tarpon Point Marina (239-549-4900) that has floating docks & fixed docks, a nice facility, helpful staff, and very protected, with fuel…diesel & gas. The retail stores attached to the hotel are not planned to be open until late 2010.
3. You can pass Tarpon Point Marina, turn left(NW) and follow the marked channel and mangroves around to The Marina at Cape Harbour (239-945-4330). You will first pass the terrific eating facility of Rum Runners, and then proceed to the small lock (usually 2 boats max) to enter the fresh water basin taking you the short distance around the seawall to Cape Harbour…..mid rise condo’s, a few restaurants, light retail stores, coffee shops, some marine services.
4. Heading east on the Okeechobee Waterway toward Ft Myers you have the Gulf Harbour Marina to stbd near marker 74 (call for local knowledge before entering), upscale facility (floating docks) in a gated community with slips to 90′, then entering the Ft Myers area you have the Centennial Marina (floating docks & very nice) to stbd near marker 50 and then a little further (mm 135 on the waterway) the city owned Ft Myers Yacht Basin to stbd. The nice thing about the ‘Yacht Bain’……you can walk into the historic and recently redone downtown, with shopping and great restaurants, and theater.
Regards,
Tom & Sue
m/v Marbles
The posting below is longer than what we usually put up on the Cruisers’ Net. However, it is such an excellent account of the often memorable (for good AND bad reasons) experience of crossing Western Florida’s waterwayless “Big Bend” region, I’ve posted the text below in its entirety. Note that this posting is copied from the AGLCA mail list with Captain Quince’s permission
A fellow cruiser has inquired about our Gulf Crossing so I thought I’d chronicle it for him and share it.
We arrived at Dog Island hoping for anchorage as the trip across St George Sound Bay had been a rough ride. We started east okay in one footers but after starting to fight the tide at the bridge, the next bit of open water continued to build until we met the confused waters between Dog Island and St George Island. Waves coming from both directions really kicked us around. Then the Shipping Cove turned out to be too rough to anchor so we turned and cranked up the engines heading to Carrabelle.
The next day brought heavy fog and about noon, a flotilla of Loopers left in a short clearing window. We wondered if we should have gone but the rough water the day before made us wonder. We disconnected power and threw off our lines about 3 0-clock to head out to the anchorage again and abruptly stopped as the fog moved back in. Listened to Hank on Queen Anne’s Revenge come across the bay and up the channel in thick fog. The talked to Mint Julep who anchored in the cove but neither boat ever saw the other. The Fog never lifted.
We contacted Queen Ann and agreed to leave the following day about 1pm to head out to Dog, thinking we’d pick up Mint Julep as well. (never did as they had moved on the night before) Heavy fog stayed with us the whole day so at 1 we headed out anyway, slowly down the channel from the Moorings to Pick up Queen Ann at C-Quarters. They pulled out and led the way as Hank had good
experience the previous day but more likely his experience with using radar as a pilot! It was interesting going out the channel as we met a 90 foot research vessel coming in and a couple of other boats as well. Not really a problem going slow, watching radar and working your way out. After Dog Island, Twins took the lead on a waypoint at Clearwater Pass. Queen Ann intended to drop off about 4 am and head to Tarpon Springs.
The advice we’d received from various sources recommended you be 2 to 3 hours offshore at daybreak so you can see and avoid the crab pots. There are also mileage from the coast guidelines and depth guidelines that help guide where you will start finding them. Like 20-30 miles and less than 30-40 foot depth but I’m not particularly sure of those numbers. So we set a course and started out at 8 knots, later cutting back so we didn’t arrive too early.
The fog stayed thick and with us for quite a while, about half the way. Boats were about a half to a mile apart and we could see their lights most of the time. Sometimes disappearing into the fog and other times more clearly. We turned on Christmas lights on the bridge to help light the way, 5 strings of white LED lights that draw less than 20 watts total. We also turned on the inverter and settled into our salon for most of the trip. About 8 0-clock I turned on the TV and we had satellite reception all across the bend.
How to stay awake for 22.5 hours crossing. Yes, it’s a long day..normal wake up at 7am, departure at 1pm, arrival to private dock on Treasure Island at 11:30 am and then up until about 8pm..what’s that, about 37+ hours! We had rested fairly well at Carrabelle. Vaughn bought a 12 pack of diet pepsi to help stay awake. I make some coffee. You’re wired at first with the fog. Then darkness descends. You set the autopilot and stare at the radar screen. The best part of the crossing may be the other boat nearby. Waves were rolling us for the first few hours, then it seemed to calm more about midnight and the crossing eased.
Vaughn and I took turns at the wheel (actually the radar screen). We ran the boat from above at first and then moved below after darkness. You can pretty well see miles ahead of you with the radar so staring at the screen seems useless. One of us would take the helm, the other watched TV and/or snoozed. We each had about 3 cat naps, the longest was probably an hour and a half. We
snacked on sandwiches. I had a coffee about 10 pm and Vaughn had a few pepsi’s. About 3:30 am Queen Ann slowed down and turned off toward Tarpon Springs, and we redirected for John’s Pass..they would not arrive at their destination until 11:30 due to very heavy fog..Hank’s now the expert!
Stars were first seen in the wee hours and a welcome sight, then more fog. We were lucky in that the fog lifted at daybreak. We never saw any crab pots until sunrise, then we saw a new line every minute. Daybreak and the sunrise are especially welcome after such a passage. My wife, Vaughn get’s to see so few sunrises anyway! We never saw any other boats on the crossing either. It’s possible that one or two targets on the radar were other boats but they were never closer than about 5 miles.
It was a fairly comfortable crossing but at some point I’d reset the autopilot to go to Clearwater and thought I’d arrived at John’s Pass. Took us a little time and phone call to our friends to understand our mistake, then we just motored down the ICW, an enjoyable ride. That afternoon we baked in the sun until we jumped in their pool..freezing at 70 degrees it was not..very refreshing and just what we needed!
So, in hindsight, I could have probably just relocated to Shipping Cove in the fog but you do get a good night’s sleep at the dock. We could have started later and maintained our 8 knots but that would only make about an hour or two’s difference or so. Longer or shorter travels don’t matter that much over such a time and distance when on autopilot (The boat and the crew). Our trip was 195 miles. The waves and winds treated us fairly. Fog sucked but what can you see in the dark anyway? No moon so it would be dark.
Next time I want clear skies, a full moon and the millpond sea!
All that to say we did it with caffeine and cat naps.
Bring on the Keys and Bahamas
Forget Hell!!
Cabbage Key Inn and restaurant is accessed directly off the Western Florida ICW, via a marked channel, south of Boca Grande Pass and Cayo Costa. One attraction here is that the dining room is wallpapered with genuine one dollar bills. This is a neat, eccentric little place, which features its own marina.
The message below was copied from the AGLCA list, and was in response to a question about good dock and dine locations along this portion of the Western Florida coastline.
In addition to Portobello’s at Burnt Store, there is Cabbage Key, just off the G-ICW south of Boca Grand Pass, across from the anchorage at Useppa Island. Cabbage Key is a true dock ‘n dine location. It isn’t fine dining, but it’s a true American Classic experience. Adequate water for your draft. We’ve been there several times in the winter months when water levels are lower. Short finger piers.
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
I agree with Captain Smith’s comments below. We have always found the evening meal at Cabbage Key to be the better choice.
I’d like to add that while lunch can be jammed with tourists, dinner is generally excellent. They shine up the wait staff, there’s not a burger to be seen on the menu, and the food is good to excellent. Dinner is, without question, my favorite time. And you could say I’m jaded – I’ve been there for lunch, anyway, over 700 times (as a commercial skipper).
Capt. Mike Smith
Click Here To View the Western Florida Cruisers’ Net Marina Directory Listing For Cabbage Key Marina
The Marina at Factory Bay (http://www.themarinaatfactorybay.com/) is a new facility for me, and it is not yet listed in our “Western Florida Marina Directory.” We have determined it is perched on the western shores of Factory Bay. This body of water is found just off the channel running behind Marco, near the island’s northwestern section.
Has anyone else stayed at The Marina at Factory Bay. If so, PLEASE tell us about your experience. The easiest way is to click the “Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, or e-mail me directly at CruisingWriter@CruisersNet.net.
We spent 4 nights at The Marina at Factory Bay and were very pleased. The facilities are first rate, the harbor masters anxious to please and restaurants, dry cleaner, marina store and bike shop an easy walk. The large condo provided great protection from the 25kn gale out of the NW. Grocery a 15 minute walk but can dinghy to a Publix (I think it’s a Publix) near the Esplanade (it has a dock out back.) The marina offers a 25% discount to Boat US members off their usual 2.50 per foot. Fuel up before going to Marco-diesel about 80 cents a gal more than Naples and gas is about $4 gal!
Peter Chapin
Moon Beam
Below is a GREAT discussion copied from the GL (“Great Loop”) mail list about cruising the waters from Marco Island on the Western Florida coastline, south of Marthon in the Florida Keys. There were so many contributors to this string that it was not practical to seek individual permissions, so I’ve just used first names.
Looking for a crossing buddy & or advice for the best route to Marathon. Lots of skinny water, a long passage at 9 kn & navigating shoals at the end in fading light leave me a bit nervous. Any advice or company appreciated.
Peter
We prefer to duck in at Little Shark River and anchor for the night. It is a wild, desolate and beautiful place. Take a run up the river a ways to sightsee. Leave early in the morning when the seas are down a bit. The trip from there to Marathon is only about 35 miles, if my memory is correct. Its an easy morning run and you will have lunch in Marathon.
Regards,
Randy
If you have the time, instead of going from Marco to Marathon in one long run, stop at Everglades City along the way, and if you like anchoring out, too, try the Little Shark River. (No place at Little Shark for animals, if you have a dog aboard, but otherwise a beautiful, remote area.)
From Marco, you have two choices. You can go inside down through Goodland, or outside around the Cape Romano, I think the name is, shoals. Inside, there’s only one trick, and that’s immediately south of Marco. There’s a bridge there, where if I recall correctly, the marker colors reverse sides. As you come under that bridge, you have to turn hard to stbd to catch a red marker that’s difficult to pick out on the south shoreline. Don’t miss it. Little fishing boats skip it and go straight across that bay to the green, but you can’t. That red is correctly charted, but confusing on the water. Thatchannel is shallow, but it carries 7′, so you should be OK. You come out of the inside passage in the 10,000 Islands region inside (east) of the Cape Romano shoals, and can run across the bay there in 6 ft or water until it deepens to the 10 ft range. The channel up to Everglades City is deep, and the river currents can be swift at peak ebb and flood. The dock there is old, but adequate. Dining ambiance is fun. Old Florida. Make your run from EC to Marathon (or Little Shark) the next day.
As you run south, say just inside the Everglades National Wildlife Sanctuary and you’ll be clear of crab pots. Outside the park boundary, there are lots of them. That run carries 6′ or slightly more water all the way.
At Marathon, sea conditions may change when you go under the Seven Mile Bridge into Hawk Channel. We made the trip in rather calm conditions in Florida Bay, but found 4 ft rollers in the Hawk Channel. Use the charts and run in shallower water north of the channel for a smoother ride.
Hope this is useful.
Jim
I’ve done Marco to Marathon (and vice versa) several times in my 4.5 draft vessel. The only spots to be concerned about are on the Marathon end where you have to make a few zigs and zags to by pass some shoals. They are well marked on the chart. Plot a course through there then line up on Seven Mile bridge and you will have it made.
RC
I agree with everythin Jim says about Everglades City. I’ve done the “back door” from Goodland and out Coon Key Pass to avoid the long trip around Cape Romano Shoals, but I’d be VERY cautious with 5 ft. draft. Also, unless they have changed, the Rod and Gun Club in Everglades City doesn’t take plastic.
Bring cash for your dockage.
Regards,
Randy
Because of very strong easterly winds in March 2009, we enjoyed several relaxing days at the Rod and Gun Club in Everglades City and then an additional night at anchor in nearby Russell Pass because a pre-arranged boating club visit ran us off the quay wall at the R&G Club. We were offered a short section of the quay at is southern end just beyond a slight jog in it, but upon sounding it with my lead line, I discovered I had about an hour to vacate it before I was aground – off to Russell Pass where we were in the company of 11 other vessels.
An easy day to the Little Shark River headed into the seas saw us well up into the river beyond the last nav marker because several sailboats were occupying the more generally used open area inside the mouth of the river. The wind funneling down the river and the severely reversing currents made that a bad decision for us, and the second night was spent much more comfortably at anchor off the coast a mile south of the river’s mouth. The wind was howling right out of the east making the area close in flat calm.
My chart plotter shows the route I took to be 60 NM to Boot Key Harbor at Marathon from the Little Shark. I stayed just inside the National Park Markers until the jagged coral bottom began to look too close to my 4.5 foot deep keel. Even after going south of the markers (before Oxfoot Bank), I was clearing it by less than a foot. This all may well have had to do with that strong wind blowing the water out of the bay.
Rich
Another option if the weather turns on you and you don’t want to push on is behind New Turkey Key ( 25038’52.36″N x 81016’47.50″W) Protected from anything but wind out of the south. Easy to get in and out. There’s a nice beach you can go ashore. There were tent campers there when we passed thru.
What’s the status of Flamingo? We spent a week there Feb 2008. They were still recovering from storm damage, but it is one of the highlights of the loop for us. We finally left when we started running low on food.
Mike & Tammy
My route plan shows 37.5 NM from the mouth of the Little Shark River to North West Cape on Cape Sable, to the N side of the span at the Seven Mile Bridge. You will need to add extra mileage if you don’t go direct from NW Cape to Marathon. If you take the “Yacht Channel route, which is what I suspect Rich did, you wind up almost 20 miles east of Marathon at about Long Key. This is a good strategy if the wind is strong out of the east because you can hug the shore at Cape Sable and then you get somewhat of a lee from the shallow waters of Florida Bay as you run down past First National Bank, Oxfoot Bank and Schooner Bank.
Randy is exactly right. Lots of wind that day, and I was looking for the most water I could find for my 4.5 foot draft.
Rich
There’s a passel of great cruising advice in Captain Jone’s note below. Note that this messages was copied from the AGLCA mail list.
Heading south from Tarpon, here are some options we have enjoyed:
1. Approx 10 miles south of Tarpon on the ‘inside’, just south of the Dunedin Bridge-turn west in the channel – Caladesi State Park, (727-469-5918); 90 floating docks, but no more than 4′ draft for most winter tides. Great spot, staffed by 2 Rangers, secluded, nice beach area with superior sunset viewing. Refer to tide info.
2. Clearwater Municipal Marina – 727-462-6954
3. 1 mile south, a protected anchorage just west of the Clearwater Yacht Club. Skipper Bob’ ‘Gulf Coast Crusing Guide’ will get you into the anchorage. As I remember, hug the south side of the entrance going in.
4. Tampa Bay area – go on up the Bay to St Pete Beach area and enjoy the St Pete Municipal Marina (727-893-7329), and all of the activity within walking distance, or the Vinoy Hotel docks (727-824-8022). As of 2 months ago they were both the same overight dockage price. The St Pete Yacht Club (727-822-3873) also may still take reciprocals. If you have the time, go on north on Tampa Bay and Seddon Channel toward Tampa to Davis Island and stay at the quite Marjorie Park Marina (813-259-1604) on Davis Island.
5. South of Tampa Bay on the east shore is the Manatee River. You will find a terrific Boat yard, Snead Island Boat Works (941-722-2400) if you need any work done on any kind. 2 miles up the river in Bradenton is Twin Dolphins Marina…a cruiser friendly marina, floating docks, pool, fuel, restaurant, and friendly. Across the river from Twin Dolphins is Regatta Pointe Marina (941-729-6021), with “Loopers” usually found at both locations.
6. South near Longboat Key is a good anchorage at mile 84.9, just south of the Longboat Pass inlet.
7. On Longboat Key is Longboat Key Moorings (941-383-8383), pricey, protected, tons of amenities, and located in a developed gated community.
8. Sarasota you will find Marina Jacks (941-955-9488) with protected floating docks and very nice, with restaurant, etc. There is a mooring field/and-or anchorage just outside the marina but can be dicey in strong west and NW winds.
9. South at Venice is the Crow’s Nest Marina just inside the inlet. Popular spot because it is just off the Gulf.
10. In Lemon bay on the ICW at approx mile 38 is the Palm Island Marina (941-697-4356)….another good stopover. 11. When you get south into Gasparilla Sound and Charlotte Harbor you have many options. Check your cruising guides for all that is available. To mention a few…..Burnt Store Marina, Boca Grande Marina, Punta Gorda Yacht Club, Laishley Park Marina in downtown Punta Gorda, as well as Fisherman’s Village.
12. Heading south of Charlotte Harbor on the GIWW is a terrific anchorage to the west at Cayo Costa State Park.
13. Following south is Useppa Island with a good anchorage at marker G61, which can be bumpy in the day time.
14. At mile 13 is Captiva Island and the Tween Waters Resort Marina (239-472-5161)…pricey, private, laid back, and great beach on the Gulf. .
15. I forgot…at mile 13.7, if you feel really flush, just north is the South Seas Island Resort (888-777-3625).
16. Anchorge- just above the south tip of Sanibel Island on the inside, just off the shore, south of the bridge and south of the entrance to Sanibel Marina is good holding. Do not anchor if winds out of the N or NE, but good for SW, W, and NW winds.
The above are just some that come to mind. There are a number of other good anchorages and marinas I have not included (some I have been to and some I have not), but can be covered by cruising guides you may have. On south is Cape Coral and the Ft Myers Beach area which opens up another whole chapter of good facilities; and then on south to Big Carlos anchorage in Estero Bay, Wiggin Pass Marina, Naples, Marco Island, Goodland, Everglade City, Shark River and then the Keys. Once you have chewed on the 16 locations I have mentioned, let me know if you are still interested in hearing of additional facilities from Cape Coral south.
Regards,
Tom Jones
m/v Marbles
These pests are an even greater problem for passages after dark.
Be careful south of Crystal River to Key West. Fisherman do place their traps within 1 mile off shore, as we saw in October. As an example you will see they come up to the entrance buoy to Clearwater; and Ft Myers Beach to Naples they could be anywhere from 1/2 mile off shore on out, but not nearly the numbers that are further to the north of Bocca Grande.
Also, from Marco entrance south to Marathon, unless you have a very shallow draft vessel you may need to stay further than a mile off shore going around Cape Romano.
Regards, Tom Jones m/v ‘Marbles’
This is one of the first reports we have had here on the Cruisers’ Net (this posting was copied from the AGLCA mail list), about shallow depths on Little Shark River. To be sure, there is some shallow water there, especially if you try to navigate through to (Big) Shark River. However, in the instance below, I’m guessing the anchor in question was dropped fairly close to the river’s southeastern shoreline.
I’ve always suggested that those who want to anchor near Little Shark’s mouth, drop their hook on the mid-line of the charted cove northwest of #4. This is a great spot. HOWEVER, don’t get your anchor too near this shoreline either. The waters near to shore have a foul bottom.
When we anchored in Little Shark River, near the southeast shore between G”3″ and R”4″, the anchor was in ~7 feet of water at high tide. Strong SE wind predicted, so we put out plenty of scope. The next morning, when we got ready to leave, the anchor was in ~3 feet of water (low tide) and we draw ~4. Fortunately, that scope and the wind had us in deeper water. The tide didn’t get high enough for us to retrieve the anchor until after mid-day. We decided to re-anchor and enjoy the area for another day. I was used to 1-2 foot tides in the Gulf and didn’t pay attention.
The point is, don’t rely on charted depths and do check the tide predictions. There is plenty of water in Little Shark River, but not near the southeast bank at low tide.
Great anchorage!
Bill
Laishley Park Marina is the new city of Punta Gorda facility, which sits between the Highway 41 bridges on the shores of Peace River. These spans put this facility off limits for all but small sailcraft, but for power vessels, this is one of the best places to coil your lines from Fort Myers to Tampa Bay. I have been here and personally inspected their docks, store, showers and Laundromat. Laishly Park is exactly what a cruiser friendly marina should be, and I’m not just saying that because they are a SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR!
Subject: Laishley Park Marina
Cruising News: We are staying at the Laishley Park Marina in Punta Gorda, FL for about 4 weeks. This is an outstanding new marina with floating dock. Very friendly people and really great showers & Laundry. Other than being off the path it is a great place.
Larry Hemmerich
For those who have never before cruised the Big Bend region of Western Florida before (north of Anclote Key and Clearwater, and south of Dog Island and Carrabelle), there is NO protected inland waterway that serves this region. Thus, cruisers, must either follow the coastline around, keeping WELL offshore, or cut the corner and head straight for their destination. Either way, crab pots can be a real problem for cruisers, particularly in the dark.
The question and two answers below are copied from the AGLCA mailing list, and give good info on successfully navigating these wide open (but shallow) waters.
How have the crab pots been recently for those that have crossed during the day?
How about at night? I note that there will not be much of a moon this weekend as it’s waning towards a new moon on wednesday the 16th. Are you using a light to try and spot them?
Also, re you trying to stick closer to the coast by going to R”2″, or just charting a direct line? Seems like when you’re out that far already, the direct course wouldn’t be that different as the wind and waves go.
Any other thoughts or guidance is much appreciated!
Thanks to those that have gone before!
Jim (crossing virgin)
Jim,
We made a direct daylight crossing, Govt Cut in Appalachicola to Clearwater on Nov 14. We found a minimum (from our standards) number of crab pots for about the last 4-6 miles. They were doable. You just have to figure out on which degree heading the crabber set his traps and then “thread the needle” following that heading. In general, the crabbers don’t usually set their traps in more than 40 feet of water and more than 12 miles from the coast (it is too much work for them). However in the Big Bend the water is so shallow all that changes.
Safe Travels,
Fred Clarkson
“Perfect Remedy”
Jim,
We crossed a couple of weeks ago on a direct line from Apalachicola to Clearwater at night and started seeing crabpots about 35 miles out and picked up from there. We left gov cut around 4 PM and arrived at Clearwater around 11am next morning and had to offset our approach due to the sun glare in order to see the crabpots but we made it OK.
Steve Wood
Here and Now
at Cape Haze, Fl
I have always recommended anchoring on Little Shark River IF the wind does NOT die. Should you be caught here in calm conditions, the winged pests may pick your boat up and take it to the marsh grass, to devour it there. Otherwise, this is a beautiful, well protected anchorage.
In the absence of an unusually low tide, which seems to be what Captain RL and Karen are describing below, the entrance to Little Shark River maintains 6 feet at MLW. Once on the rivers’ interior reaches, depths improve for quite some distance upstream.
Anchored in the Little Shark River on Sunday Dec. 13, 2009. Very buggy but we have a screen enclosed cockpit, stayed in the cockpit all night to view the Geminid Meteor Showers’¦spectacular show. Several dolphins circled our boat all night. No problem entering the river but when we left the next morning it was a very low tide and at one point we did tap the bottom but didn’t have any problems getting out. Our boat draws 5 1/2 ‘˜. A great place to view the wildlife and stars, also no cell phone reception which can be good and bad. A welcome change from the Keys.
Capt. RL & Karen
s/v Last Call
45’ Island Trader, Ketch
The Lofton Island Mooring Field is managed by, and lies directly across the Caloosahatchee River/Okeechobee Waterway channel from Fort Myer City Yacht Basin (A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR). What else can I say except this is one of the best municipal facilites in all of Florida, and I’m sure the marina’s excellent managment spills over quite readily into its mooring field.
Excellent well-protected anchorage, just noisy with all night traffic on the bridges. Hot and muggy except in winter. Rent a mooring buoy from the City Marina and use their facilities and dinghy dock, or just move north and set your own anchor and use restauarant and bar facilities on west side of westernmost bridge
jim
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