Smokehouse Bay lies in the heart of northern Marco Island. This fortunate body of water plays host to Esplanade Marina and a good anchorage. Its entrance channel leaves the unofficial Marco Island to Naples waterway west of marker #14. Our directory for this anchorage lists 4’6″ft as a minimum depth, so a 5’7″ draft seems questionable. If you have anchored here with a similar or greater draft, let us hear from you.
Dear Cruisers, I’ve been reading your posts re: Smokehouse Bay in Marco Is.. Unfortunately, nobody has mentioned (or I haven’t noticed) the boat types involved. Our vessel is a 43′ Beneteau with a 5’7’³ draft; would any of you be able to confirm to me the suitability of Smokehouse for our vessel? We appreciate your time and wish all fair winds. Ken & Alta (SV Alta Gracia)
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This rather bizarre, ever growing, string of messages began with the first note posted below from Skipper Joe Apicella about being charged an “overwater tax” while docking overnight at Crows Nest Marina in Venice, Florida (on the Western Florida coastline). Upon reading this note, we chose to research this issue before publishing. A phone call to the management at Crows Nest Marina confirmed, what Crows Nest describes as, a state (not city or county) tax which they add to all transient bills and have done so since 1998. A second telephone call revealed the interesting fact that the Senior Planner for the City of Venice, who works with the marinas, knew nothing of the tax and had not heard of it.
UPDATE as of 3/12/14 – After calling the attention of the cruising community to this matter in our 3/11/14 SSECN “Alert,” we have received a ton of input, most notably from Skipper Joe Apicella, the author of the first note below, and a VERY SIGNIFICANT article from Skipper Bob Austin who has exhaustively researched this issue, and has provided, what we think, is a definitive overview of just what is happening here. Please be SURE to read all this extensive verbiage, including comments from fellow cruisers set below Skipper Austin’s note. Wow, talking about stirring up a proverbial “hornet’s nest!”
Update, as of 3/14/14 – we have just received an additional note from Skipper Joe Apicella, placed below (below the important explanation from Skipper Bob Austin and my own remarks in response). As you will see, the owner of Crows Nest Marina has responded to the concerns of the cruising community expressed here and in other nautical forums
Hello All, I just spent 4 nights in the Crow’s Nest Marina in Venice and was charged $20.64 for what is billed as “overwater tax,” in addition to the sales tax! Is this legit? Has anyone ever been asked to pay this? If it is a legit tax is it usually included in the slip fee? I feel like I have been ripped off. BTW, I have never stayed at a more poorly run marina. See my recent post on Active Captain. See y’all at FBM, Joe Apicella
Well, unsurprisingly, the posting above has created a wealth of comment and input here on the SSECN. First, here is a follow-up note from the author of the above article, Skipper Joe Apicella:
I emailed the Marina owner regarding this additional charge, among other things. It was not billed as a tax, the bill just said `overwater charge.’ My first thought was that I used too much water, but that didn’t make any sense. The people at the dock said it was a tax because the marina didn’t own the bottom (under the water). The owner replied that there is a 6% state tax on all underwater structures. He said he fought it, but apparently lost and now chooses to show it so customers cannot blame him for the price increase. My question is, does he collect this for the state like a sales tax which must be sent in monthly, or is it a tax on the bottom for which he is billing customers to recoup costs. I liken this to a hotel adding an additional charge to recoup their property taxes. Apparently he can do this and get away with it as he is the only marina in Venice. Fortunately for us, we don’t have to stay there. With SSECN connections, perhaps we could get more information from a local senator. All help would be appreciated. Joe Apicella Glory Days
I just want to clear up a misunderstanding. The fee I was charged, $20.64 was for a 4 day stay, not 1 day as was thought by Ted. Joe Apicella
Then, we received this very helpful input from Skipper Robert Austin:
Claiborne, I have not heard of an “overwater tax” either–and have stayed in many marinas in Florida. I wonder if this is just a way for this marina to recoup some of their costs. If slips are rented out, there is a per square foot charge to the marina for each year, for the footprint of the slip (boat). If the marina is a cut back into land, this tax is not due to the state of Florida–but if it is on Florida’s navigable waters, it is charged to each marina, for the use of that land under the water of the slip. A private water front land owner can be charged this tax if he (she), rents out slips at their private dock. I found out about this when our yacht club was discussing fees for the marina–and the issue of cut back into land vs the slips over the florida navigable water lands–where this was collected. Here is the documentation of this fee at 15 cents a sq foot per year: http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/files/SSL_lease_fee.pdf . This is called the State’owned submerged land lease fee. “For instance, if a single’family dock is located outside an aquatic preserve and has less than 10 square feet of lease area for every foot of riparian shoreline, lease fees are not required. Larger single’ family docks are subject to lease fees and, pursuant to Chapter 18’20, F.A.C., docks located within an aquatic preserve are subject to stricter standards.” Commercial marinas require authorization which may include approval by the Board of Trustees at a regularly scheduled Cabinet meeting, depending on the size of the lease area. These types of facilities can be private or public with the public facilities being eligible for a 30 percent discount on the lease fees if they have at least 90 percent of the slips available to the general public. In addition, marinas that receive the Clean Marina designation from DEP can earn another 10 percent discount. These discounts encourage and reward marinas that provide public access to the waters of the state. The standard lease term is five years but is increased to ten years for marinas that are at least 90 percent open to the public. Extended term leases of up to 25 years may be obtained if certain rule conditions are met and an additional fee is paid for the extended term. All leases require a non’ refundable processing fee and a lease may be modified and/or assigned to another party if the lessee is complying with statutes and rules and has no outstanding lease fees. Lease fees are paid annually and are calculated using two components ‘“ a base fee and the amount of revenue generated. The base fee is computed by multiplying the amount of leased square footage by a base fee rate. The current base fee rate is approximately 15¢ per square foot of lease area and is adjusted annually based on the Consumer Price Index. There is a minimum base fee of approximately $460 which is also adjusted annually based on the Consumer Price Index. This translates into an annual minimum lease fee for leases of approximately 3,000 square feet or less. For all new leases, there is a one’time initial surcharge of 25 percent of the base fee due when the lease is executed. The second component used to determine lease fees is whether any revenue is generated from the use of the state’owned submerged land. Lessees must complete the Annual Wetslip Revenue Report declaring any income generated within the lease area. Examples of this would be any money earned from a lessee renting slips to other individuals, any money associated with the value of a slip that someone receives when selling the exclusive use of the slip along with a condominium unit, and rental or sales income an individual condominium owner receives when selling their rights to use a slip to a neighbor or other party. If there is revenue generated from the leased area and 6 percent of this revenue is greater than the base fee (15¢ per square foot of lease area), then the lease fee owed to the Board of Trustees would be 6 percent of the income generated. I have run into this in Calif–where we were charged directly by the state for the foot print of our boat over the land under the water, when we were paying fees to the City of Long Beach Municipal Marina (for many years)–this tax was beyond the fee the city collected. On the other hand, I owned a water front home in Huntington Harbor (CA) where I actually owned the land under the water half way across the canal (mistake when the subdivision was plotted, and there were two house–mine and the one across from me, where the land was deeded to the adjacent upland owner). My personal opinion, is that “Crow’s Nest Marina” is ripping off the boaters–and padding their income. Hopefully someone will look into this. If you look up all of the comments on mooring field taxes–they include 6 to 7% Florida, plus county tax (counties can add more to the state sales tax in Florida)–not a single one of these has a “over water tax”. One way to bring this out in the open would be to ask the Florida Tax department–or this trust (see above) to do an audit on Crows Nest Marina! Regards–and again thanks for all you do for the boating community! Bob Austin, Pensacola (currently in Marathon) FL.
So, as you can see from Skipper Austin’s rather definitive note, what we are talking about here is a leasehold fee levied by the state of Florida for the bottom land over which a marina’s docks are located. And, remember, the state of Florida claims ownership of all bottom land out to several miles offshore. In an indirect way, I can verify this. Some twelve years ago, my home state of North Carolina had a dangerous flirtation with the idea of a similar bottom land leasehold fee. As originally written, had this regulation/fee gone into effect, it is unlikely any dock would ever had been built again in NC waters. Fortunately, a coalition of the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net, Boat/US and many, many NC marina owners came together and largely defeated this measure. As all this discussion and debate were going forward about an NC bottom land lease fee, Florida was cited time and time and again as a state that ALREADY charged its marinas a fee for the use of bottom-land over which their docks were located. Clearly, based on the wealth of input both above and below, the vast majority of Sunshine State marinas are simply absorbing this fee as a cost of doing business in Florida.
Update, as of 3/14/14 – we have just received this note below from Skipper Joe Apicella, whose related experience began this discussion. As you will see, the owner of Crows Nest Marina has responded to the concerns of the cruising community expressed here and in other nautical forums:
Dear Claiborne, I want to inform you that Mr. Harner, owner of Crow’s Nest Marina has personally responded to my issue regarding the “overwater” charges and the cable problem. He assured me he chose to show the “overwater” charge separate from his rates as a means of protest and of letting boaters know where the money was going. This was not disclosed to me when I made the reservation and was the reason for the confusion. He has refunded the $20.64 plus an appropriate amount for the cable issue. He will also include this surcharge in his rates to avoid further confusion. I would appreciate it if you would publish this so that we may avoid any further harm to his good reputation. All the best, Joe Apicella
And, LOTS more input from the cruising community below!
A big thank you to Bob Austin for providing these details. This confirms what we thought to be the marina trying to pass on there own operating costs to the boaters in the guise of a `tax’ by the State. I too would think that this practice is bordering on illegal, since they represent it as a state tax, if at the very least deceptive. Since they admit doing this since 1998, it just means they have been getting away with it and have not yet been caught. Perhaps that might change since the spotlight is now on them. Thanks for bringing all this to our attention Claiborne. Chuck Baier
I think what is involved here is a Florida `submerged land lease fee.’ We have a community marina here in Fort Myers with the approach channel over state waters. The marina itself is on private land. We are in the process of renewing our lease with the state for that portion of the submerged land under our access channel. There is a fee involved with this. Sounds like the Crow’s Nest Marina is trying to recoup their lease fee from slip renters and transient boaters. Carroll Swanson
Interesting’¦. Crows Nest specifically lobbied against the former overnight dockage at nearby Higel Park Dock. Now that I hear they are the only Marina in town, that makes more sense.’¦.but whatever happened to promised the Venice Mooring Field? Jim Quince
Claiborne, Bob Austin is absolutely and thoroughly right. You may recall we discussed this back in September, 2012. Bob provided the link on the Florida DEP site to the lease fee structure. Here is a link to the actual lease template that the DEP uses with marinas: http://www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/files/ssl_lease_template.pdf. `SSL’ here stands for `State Sovereign Lands.’ When we discussed this, it was in the context of liveaboard rules. Paragraph 29 of the standard lease agreement contains the DEP’s definition of `liveaboard vessel.’ Paragraph 1 contains the language that controls whether or not the marina can offer liveaboard tenancy as a service. The marina operator’s lease requirement is based on DEC rule-making, which it is empowered to do under the Governor’s Authority (through cabinet offices) of the Florida State Constitution and under related Florida Statute. Those rules, once adopted, have the same force and effect as if they were statute adopted by the legislature itself. Anyway, it is common practice for all marinas on the east and gulf coasts to charge separately for 30A and 50A electricity. That has the effect of padding their per foot transient rates. It’s clear from the foregoing discussion that the Crow’s Nest is additionally padding their per foot transient rate to directly recover their lease fee. That is a scam I have never seen anywhere else in Florida. I suspect if this wasn’t a scam, other marinas would also do it. Hey! Maybe that’s coming’¦ Hmmm’¦ Oh, joy! Something to look forward to’¦ Jim Healy
I am on board of Factory Bay Marina Marco Island. We are charged 25K or 6% of total revenue, whichever is greater, by Florida for land use .This is paid by slip owners. Also we have to charge 6% of any commercial revenue generated by slipowners. Ray Lovett
Florida is rife with taxes. This sounds like the marina is just trying to pass along part of their taxes to thetransient renters. I own a condo-slip for which I get a yearly `Property Tax’ bill. Although I own no real property, (e.g. the underwater land,) the state doesn’t care and the country participates in collecting the tax, as if I owned the property. Hence, the state gets the best of both; they own the land but can still tax and limit my use of it. The over-regulations never end in this country! Jason Martin
Everyone, You may have encountered a local municipal tax or a local county tourist tax that applies to transient dockage. Those things are local and are legal. Of course you may have been ripped off because a Florida business can charge fees for products and services, but it can only collect “taxes” for a legitimate taxing authority such as a port authority, city, county, and the state of Florida. I would challenge the business operator to point to the state statute or local ordinance that permits the collection of the tax above the Florida state/county sales tax. Harold
Joe, That’s a new one on me. Definitely worthy of a conversation with the dockmaster. But Venice has a long history of anti-boating and anti-boater behavior. Like Marco. We skip ’em… That said, Marine Max on the canal just south of Venice often has the best fuel prices in the region, so if you need fuel, be sure to check while you’re in that area. Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary,
Venice does indeed have a fairly new “Structures Over Water” regulation. What I could not find was whether there was an associated tax to be passed on to consumers or if the “tax” on the Crow’s Nest bill was their wording to recoup the cost of complying with the regulation. A phone call to Crow’s Nest should clear this up. We stayed there two years ago,’‹ our net cost came to $1.98 ft. Power was OK, wifi was not. We didn’t try to get into the restaurant. Lots of places in town. Had a lot of fun mixing with locals on the island in the middle of the inlet. Ron Matuska Dunedin FL
Claiborne, has anyone other than Crows Nest Marina verified this `tax’? I have been boating in every inch of Florida waters for over 20 years and have never heard of or been charged this tax. I just ain’t buyin it. At best it’s a state tax to the marina, but doubtful that it should apply to boaters. Just because they have been charging it since 1998, doesn’t mean this is a legitimate charge. Me thinks further investigation is in order. Chuck
So this place claims to have been charging a non existant state tax since 1998? Sounds like time for the atty gen to clean their clocks. $20 per day per boat should add up to millions in phony fees. Ted
We have stayed at the Crow’s Nest a number of times, and we usually need to pay the fee. I believe it applies only for boats on the western part of the long face dock. I was told some years ago that the fee was required by `someone’ because the docked boats extend into an official federal channel. I have no idea if this is pure BS or not. Other than the morning wakes from fishing boats leaving at 5 am we have no complaints. Power, WiFi, water, showers, etc. are OK. Not the Ritz, but not really worth complaining about. Gene Fuller
We have stayed in Venice several times,but not in several years, and always really liked it the marina then was well run and there was even a free dock in town. Sorry to hear things have deteriorated. Joan Clark
I wonder if this is happening on the East Coast. Maybe this is just a `Left Coast’ thing to raise more tax or discourage cruisers clogging up the anchorages. I have stayed at the City Marina in St Augustine and didnt see a over the water tax unless it was included in the rate. Webster.s ‘ Money charged for the right to anchor, as in a port.’ Tim Grissette
We stay at the Marathon Marina in Marathon, Fla. Keys’¦ They charge a `Submerged Land Lease Fee’ in addition to the Sales Tax. Sounds like the same `tax’ you have been talking about ! ! Rich D
For those in St. Augustine: Submerged river bottom within the City of St. Augustine is owned in fee simple by the City of St. Augustine according to Laws of Florida, Special Acts of 1925, Chapter 11148, Sec. 9. Ordinance 95-35 of the City of St. Augustine authorizes the city to enter into submerged land leases. Therefore, marinas within the city limits (as of 1925) do not need an SSL lease from the FDEP, the land is leased from the City.
St. Petersburg Municipal Marina – Click for Chartview
What a good description of one of the finest municipal marinas I have ever reviewed in my many years of cruising guide authorship. As Skipper David notes on Cruisers Forum, this SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR is a great liveaboard marina located on the western shore of Tampa Bay in downtown St. Petersburg.
St. Petersburg Municipal Marina is great for liveaboards. It would be a 30-45 minute drive to downtown Tampa, depending on the time of day. The facilities are very good including laundry, showers, and a captains lounge. Vinoy Park and the Pier are on the same property. Downtown St. Pete is just across the street. There are resturants, clubs, gyms, banking, groceries, and parks within walking distance. I pay $505 for a liveaboard slip for boats under 34′. Larger slips are about $100 more up to 45 feet, I believe. Good Luck, David
Last time I checked there was a several year long waiting list to get a liveaboard slip. Has this changed? Jim Barrentine
A phone call to St. Pete Municipal gave these waiting list results: “A” Slips, 44-55ft, 6-8 months wait “B” Slips, 34-44ft, 8-10 months wait
We enjoyed St Pete municipal a few years ago. Lots of walkable places of interest to visit . Steve Willett Monk 36, Gumbo
We are currently enjoying a weekend at St Pete Municipal with the Tampa Bay MTOA. 2 years ago we visited most of the local marinas looking for a place to spend the summer. There are a number of options but no other marina has the walk – to attractions as does St Pete. John Walsh
Anclote Key, Anclote River and the charming community of Tarpon Springs lies astride the northern terminus of the Western Florida ICW. So, this is either the jumping off point when headed north across the waterwayless Big Bend region of Western Florida, or the first possible stop when cruising south from Carrabelle, Dog Island or Apalachicola. Turtle Cove is one of the newest marinas in Tarpon Springs. We had occasion to visit here in February of 2012, and were favorably impressed. Most of the dockage for transient craft is located on an artificial island jutting out into the creek, and connected to the mainland by a narrow, but auto accessible neck. Neat concept! I might also add that all the downtown Tarpon Springs attractions, including the MANY superb Greek style restaurants are within easy walking distance, and there is a fresh seafood market literally next door to Turtle Cove. The review below comes to us from the AGLCA forum.
We’re at Turtle Cove Marina right now. We came to Tarpon Springs to have some work done on our 1976 Pearson 365 Ketch (sailboat). We’ve been here a few weeks and really like Turtle Cove Marina. Like others have said, the staff is friendly and very knowledgable, the location is very convenient to Olde Tarpon Springs (the sponge dock, the restaurants, etc) and is only a few blocks from both the Jolly Trolley (runs on weekends) and the Pinellas County Transit (runs every day) bus stops. The marina entrance was dredged recently and when we came in with the tide about 1 foot above Mean Low Water we never saw less than 6 feet (we draw 4’6″). The marina is a ‘work in progress’ with all phases to be completed this year. This includes a restaurant on the water (about a 5 minute walk from the transient docks) and a new Heads, Showers and Laundry Building ‘on the Island’ (it’s not really an island anymore but thats where the Transient Docks are). Oh, and rumour has it there’ll be an additional Tiki Bar there too. Dockage Fees: Right now it’s $1.50 a foot and that includes electric! Also, when you stay 5 days you get 2 more days free. When you stay that second week (and again, when you pay for 5 you get 2 free) you also get the next 2 weeks free!!! Yep, you pay for 10 days and end up staying for 30. (such a deal!) As I understand it from Ed, the owner, when the constuction is done and all the phases are completed he will probably increase the rate per foot but he said he will still have great discounts for transient cruisers. steve
Vessel taxes and registration in the state of Florida are an ongoing topics on SSECN (see /?p=106014) and the comments below offer more good information about keeping your boat legal in regards to taxes and registration. The link for applying for the Sojourner Permit mentioned below is: http://www.leetc.com/vehiclevessel.asp?page_id=vesselsojourner
They only allow you to be there 90 days, or else you will have to register the boat and pay Florida sales tax. Florida has reciprocal agreements with other states so proving you paid sales tax in another state will give you credit in FL for that payment. We just registered our boat in FL (in order to stay longer than 90 days. Registration cost us just under $200. FL does not tryto collect sales tax so long as the boat did not enter Florida waters for at least six months after you purchased it. If you want to stay in the state more than 90 days consecutively (or 183 days per year) you may apply for a Sojourner Permit. This will extend the visiting rights for a registered vessel for an additional 60 days, and it gives a documented vessel an additional year. Here is where it gets complicated. The Sojourner Permit is issued by the county. It is a state wide permit but the county issues it. This has lead to a great deal of confusion because many county employees do not know about it. And there are a variety of different interpretations. If you are going to be in Florida for over 90 days you would be wise to educate yourself in advance and get the permit form on line (HSMV 87244 “Application to Register Non Titled Vessels”). Fill it out and take it to the county tax office and be prepared to educate the clerk when you arrive. Tom Hale
Following up on earlier comments — we had no state registration whatsoever (it’s a documented boat) until we came to FL. It is not required by our state of domicile (SD), and we deliberately chose a DE hailing port for the boat and a DE registration for our tender to avoid any “where’s your state sicker” questions — DE does not require or issue registration stickers on documented vessels. (And, yes, I know it matters not one whit what hailing port is chosen for a documented vessel, but there are, apparently, some LEOs who choose to remain blissfully unaware of this fact). The permit of which you speak generates a good deal of confusion, as you’ve noted. You can only get one if you already have a registration from another state (yes, even if your boat is federally documented). Also, many tax collectors know nothing about it. See this discussion on the SSECN: /florida-sojourners-permit-reprise/ In our case, we’d first need to persuade DE to issue us a registration sticker, which is uncommon for documented vessels and therefore can not be done with just a few mouse clicks (unlike, for example, our tender). That sticker would cost us about the same $200 annually as the FL registration. Then we’d need to apply for the sojourner permit, which would only give us 11 months. For the same $200 we now have a regular FL sticker and we can come and go to FL as we please. Also, we have a real sticker to show any other state who wants to play the “show me your sticker” game. We did not have to pay FL sales tax on the boat, although, to be fair, we had the boat for more than a year before we first arrived in FL waters. BTW, we did all this at the Martin County Tax Collector in Stuart, and the person who handles boats there was well-versed in the intricacies of FL boat registrations. She collected six months’ worth of marina and fuel receipts from us to establish that the boat had remained outside FL for a full six months after purchase. If you plan to go the same route, make sure you have such documentation — your log book alone will not suffice. We established this practice when we bought the boat, so that we would always have documentation for any state officials that we had not overstayed our welcome in their waters. We also get and keep pump-out receipts for the same reason. FWIW and YMMV. -Sean m/y Vector
Not to add to the confused state of this topic, but there’s a big distinction that needs to be drawn regarding the type of tax being discussed. This applies to all major purchases (cars, trucks, boats, etc). There is a _sales_ tax which is paid to the state at the time of purchase (if the state has a sales tax – some don’t). There is a _USE_ TAX (pronounced “yoose”) which is paid to the state where the item is being used (if a state has a sales tax, they’ll most likely also have a USE tax). The purpose of this tax is to equalize the tax consequences for someone who goes to a no-tax or low-tax state to purchase a high-priced item, thereby _attempting_ to avoid the state sales tax. Florida (and many other states), for example, has both a sales and a use tax. The discussion on this thread regarding taxes generally is dealing with the use tax, not the sales tax. There are a number of exemptions to paying the use tax. In Florida, owning the property and keeping it out of the state for more than six months will result in no use tax liability. There are other exemptions as well, including a credit for sales tax paid in another state as well as for a use tax paid in another state. Your friendly local tax collector can probably help sort things out (as long as their familiar with their own state’s tax rules). Federal documentation of a boat doesn’t affect the tax situation one way or the other; that’s been the case since the 1950s. Bob McLeran and Judy Young MV Sanderling
Re “They only allow you to be there 90 days, or else you will have to register the boat and pay Florida sales tax” exactly what “SALE” took place? You already owned the boat when you entered Florida, so I don’t see what sale took place when you entered Florida waters. Bob Peterson Lopaka Nane
None, but they want to make sure you paid sales tax somewhere. I’ve never seen the “fairness” in this, but Texas did the same thing when the started requiring Documented boats to register. If you had owned the boat less than 4 years and kept it in Texas over 90 days you had to pay Texas sales tax if you had not paid it elsewhere, no matter where or when you bought the boat. Texas, at least gave us the 4 year “loophole”. Not sure Fla has a time limit on ownership. Maybe someone on the list can tell us. With the 4 year rule in Texas, you can imagine all the dodging that was going on for those of us folks that had owned our boats just under the 4 year limit. Lets just say I got to do a couple of lovely cruises to Lake Charles, La and bought fuel while I was there. Brent
Here’s a Florida interesting fact: when your boat becomes 30 years old the state registration fee goes way down. Mine was $7.00 this year. It was $5.26 last year. The Motor Vehicle people will not offer this information and you need to remind them and fill in a simple form to get it but it saved me more than $200.00 a year. This may happen in other states as well; worth checking into. Fred Sorensen OA 43
We purchased our boat in 2009 in Maryland and paid the sales tax plus got a 90 day Maryland registration recommends by the dealer. Immediately took it to Florida where we registered it and it has been ever since. Two times since then New York State, where we live, has contacted us for prove that we paid the sales tax and said, if you ever bring the boat into NY waters, or pass through NY waters, we must pay the difference between Maryland and the higher NY sales tax. Chas & Bev
Interesting idea about saving marina and fuel receipts for six months, but for me on a sailboat with large tankage that might be nothing more than a couple of fuel receipts, if that. I almost never stay in a marina. Seems like it might be hard to prove a negative like you have never been someplace. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Bottom line is you were dealing with an ornery official who was probably making the rules up to suit their own agenda. Also, as some have pointed out, never rely on any official to actually know the laws they are supposed to be enforcing. Read up on the statutes in play and be prepared to bring copies of them to show. I have encountered numerous cases of bureaucracy not knowing their own rules. John Kettlewell
One of the most important personal marina visits on my Western Florida speaking/research tour of 2/9/14 to 2/16/14, was to call at Boca Grande Marina, A SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, on lovely Gasparilla Island. I knew this facility has just dredged, and sported entirely new docks. And so, it was with more than a little pleasant anticipation that I drove my “land yacht” across the causeway and down the length of the island, on my way to Boca Grande Marina. The reality I discovered upon seeing the new iteration of this fine facility was NOT disappointing. The new, modern, composite decked docks represent a huge improvement over the old, tired, wooden decked piers. And, tied up in the marina’s wet slips, I discovered a whole host of friends from Isles Yacht Club, where I had just spoken the previous evening. Everyone agreed that Boca Grande Marina was now a facility “worth visiting again.” I also had lunch at the on-site Eagle Grill, located on the second floor of the building overlooking the harbor. My grouper sandwich was yummy, and the view was all that might be asked. The interior furnishings were what could only be described as “sumptuous.” All in all, a GREAT spot for a memorable lunch or dinner. Downstairs, cruisers will discover an open air dining choice, known as Miller’s Dockside, recalling the original name of this marina, back in the “bad old days,” thankfully, now long in the past. I did not get the chance to sample the cuisine downstairs, but if it’s anything like the upstairs bill of fare, you will want to make the acquaintance of this dining attraction as well. As usual, I’ve wandered a bit from my subject, which is to describe Boca Grande Marina’s entrance channel, and the good effects on this passage brought about by the recent dredging. Prior to the dredging project, the problem with accessing Boca Grande Marina was that, for years, a long, long shoal had been building farther and farther to the west from Boca Grande Bayou’s southside entrance point, south of marker #7. While, due to permitting restrictions, the marina was not allowed to entirely remove this shoal, the dredging did drive it back to the east. That represents a considerably improvement, but Dockmaster Garrett Lown still suggests cruisers observe the following procedure: After passing marker #7 to its northern side, proceed on to the west for a boat length or so, and only then turn to the south, heavily favoring the westerly shores. This procedure will cause your vessel to pass west of the shoal, and hard by the private homes and docks which flank the bayou’s western shoreline. I also observed two green, spar type, floating buoys outlining the western and northwestern edge of the entrance shoal. DO NOT APPROACH THESE SPAR BUOYS CLOSELY. They are founded in the edge of the shallow water. The marina staff also suggests that you give them a call on VHF channel 16 prior to running the entrance channel, and they will be glad to update you on any recent changes to the above procedure. So, now you know how to safely visit one of the most improved marinas on the Western Florida coastline, and some of the reasons to choose a visit to this facility. There are LOTS more attractions in the nearby village of Boca Grande, all within walking distance, but that’s another story for another day!
a month or so ago i took a dingy ride into this marina, had to push a boat off the bar coming into #7, watch you stern coming in. I have heard the the dockage price is a little steep other then that it looked nice from the water. nick chavasse sv war depart
Claiborne, Your praise of Boca Grande Marina was well placed. We love it. However, Millers Dockside Grill is great. However, I don’t look at the old Miller’s Marina as the `bad old days’. It was just different. We loved it, too. It was a happening place with fishing boats coming and going. I have saved one of the `T’ shirts from the 25th anniversary tarpon tournament for a souvenir. Don on Moonstruck
Claiborne replies: Captain Don, my reference to the “bad old days,” was not meant to cast light on the old, informal marina as a whole, but rather at what I considered to be very indifferent management in those days. Again, those times are now only a distant memory. The present dockmasters couldn’t be better!
The boater’s praise of Boca Grande Marina prompted me to view it on Google Earth where it appears to have a soft and shallow bottom in the current view presented…:D
SSECN is grateful to Skipper Steinbrunner for the kind words as well as the location of another source of LPG/Propane. Bimini Basin anchorage is found in the charted lake-like body of water, lying just west of the `Cape Coral’ designation on Chart 11427.
Quick note to say `Thanks’ for the LPG/Propane availability feature on this website (we use it all the time), and to pass on an addition. From the Bimini Basin anchorage on Cape Coral near Ft Myers, Lee County Plumbing Supply at 532 SE 46th Terrace, Cape Coral, FL, 239-542-4618 does propane refills. It’s less than half a mile walk from the anchorage which has a dinghy dock available at the park. Thanks again for all you do to make this cruising life easier, safer and a lot more fun. Lori Steinbrunner
We live in Cape Coral and have had Tom Seiller (239-910-1679) replace our entire bridge bimini and eisenglass, including changing the frame. We’re happy with his work. He does a lot of work in our marina, Cape Coral Yacht Basin, but I know he works all over SW Fl. Steve Smith M/V Island Time Cape Coral, Fl
I have had good work done by Scotties canvas in N. Ft. Myers. Rich Ward
We had our entire flybridge and sundeck redone at Cape Canvas. Are very please with the quality of workmanship – even put Velcro flaps over the zippers to protect from sun. Their number is 239-772-0300. Janis Richter
We have used Sea King Kanvas in Ft. Myers twice. Once to replace the Isinglass in our front panel and this year to make a new side panel that we lost. The window was one with a “smile” zipper opening. They did excellent work. The zipper was installed with a welt to cover it on the outside (the old one did not have that) to prevent leaks. The new panel has a fixed window in it. They came out and made a template. They fit the new window and it is a perfect fit. They are not the cheapest around but they stand behind their work. I can recommend them. Mitch & Carole Brodkin
We recently had some canvas replaced by a shop in Ft. Myers Beach called Landseair. We were very satisfied. It is on San Carlos Avenue. Sorry, I don’t know the number right off hand. Don & Anita Gulseth Limelight Land, Sea & Air Upholstery & Canvas, 239-466-1944
The Punta Gorda pumpout boat has been in operation since November of 2013 and has definitely been good news for cruisers visiting SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR, Punta Gorda, on Western Florida’s Charlotte Harbor/Peace River.To see the schedule and locations, go to: http://www.ci.punta-gorda.fl.us/leis/boating.html
Question: What days of the week is the pump out boat operating? I would like to get a pump out. Answer: The pump out boat is available on Monday’s and Thursday’s, between 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. Contact Laishley Marina at 941-575-0142 for more information. You can hail them on VHF16/19. The marina suggests calling ahead and scheduling the pump out so they can be of the best service to you. The resident who took this photo said the staff who run the pump out boat gave them a reward card that is good at the following businesses: Burnt Store Marina, Fishermen’s Village Marina, Laishley Marina, Charlotte Harbor Yacht Club, Isles Yacht Club, West Marine-Punta Gorda, Porto Bello Restaurant, Village Fish Market and King Fisher Fleet. For more information about the marine disposal, click here Steve Johnson
We have previously published several strings of messages about the Florida Pilot Mooring Field program. Some hate it, some like it, and some are not sure exactly what to think, and just want additional information. Linked below you will discover a series of messages which recently appeared on the T&T (Trawlers and Trawlering) mailing list. As you will see, again, there is a wide range of opinions, but we found some of these notes extremely well thought-through, and definitely thought provoking. Note that some of these contributors are referring to the FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission) report on Florida Mooring Fields, which was recently published, and about which we will have more to say editorially soon! This series of messages is sooooo lengthy, instead of pasting them all below, we invite you to visit:
Efforts to save popular Snake Island in Venice Inlet have been underway since November and should be nearing completion. The island is reported to be a Native American archaeological site. The cost to taxpayers will be $400K, but most local boaters say the cost is justified. Snake Island lies in the northwest corner of the intersection of Venice Inlet and Western Florida Waterway at statute mile 58.5. For more on this story from WTSP News, go to: http://159.54.242.46/news/local/article/346693/8/Effort-to-save-shrinking-Snake-Island-set-to-begin
Captains Dave and Nan Fuller offer good advice and recommendations of routes and stops on the sail from Marco Island to Marathon, as originally posted on the AGLCA Forum, www.greatloop.org.
We made this leg of our Loop in August 2013, and it was the roughest open water we have yet encountered, probably because we were on a deadline to get > to the Keys. Our Carrabelle to Tarpon Springs leg was glassy smooth as we were patient and waited nearly 3 weeks for a suitable weather window. I mostly used NOAA and Weather Underground for my weather forecasts from Ft. Myers to the Keys but did not make a go-no go decision based on weather as it was predicted to remain the same for several days and it was within my personal tolerance of seas 2-3 feet. We had wind from the northeast and east during the three day trip from Ft. Myers to Islamorada. Day one, we traveled from Ft. Myers to Marco where we met a close friend and his wife for dinner and then the next day we left Marco for the Little Shark River anchorage in the Everglades. Everyone told us to beware of bugs, but there was sufficient wind blowing day and night so they were almost zero problem in August. I was even able to grill out after dusk and only had a few horseflies to deal with. We highly recommend Little Shark River as an anchorage as it is well protected in every direction except southwest and if you go a little deeper up river, it offers protection in every wind direction. The trade-off will be the amount of bugs to deal with. After spending one night at anchor, we continued around the Cape and to the Keys. We have friends in Islamorada, so we did not go to Marathon by boat. We spent a few days in Islamorada and rented a car to go to Key West and be tourists. If I take this route again, I will stay further offshore going around the Cape. We basically followed the boundaries of Everglades National Park and went over so much shallow water that I finally shut off my depth alarm. We never hit bottom, but this is an area where shallow water is the rule and the charted depth pretty much matched what we experienced. Interestingly, the closer we came to shore, the bumpier it became and the further off shore, the smoother. This was with a 25 MPH east wind. We had constant 2 foot seas with occasional 3 and 4 footers. I think that the bottom profile is such that because of a slow slope, it gives the wave energy extra lift making for steeper waves and the deeper water makes them more of a roller profile. Normally, when you are behind a reef, you experience smoother water than on the windward side, but that was not the case here. Waves were on our port forward quarter resulting in nearly constant spraying and were more bothersome than uncomfortable. However, our dinghy came loose and was thrashing about on the davits and we just had to let it swing as it was not safe to go on our swim platform to secure it. It did some damage to the davit mounts and bracing that required repairs, but the dinghy sustained zero damage. I am not an expert on weather in this area, but my understanding is that typically the winds are out of the northeast (bad weather) or east (prevailing) or even southeast (best possible for this leg). I understand it is rare to have winds out of the west quadrants unless associated with a storm. We spoke to one skipper in Marco who had come from Key West the previous day and said they got beat up by 6 footers in the same wind conditions, but they took a much deeper water track than hugging the coast as we did. There is only one area you will need to watch with a well-marked channel marking the opening between two reefs. You make an S turn and it is very easy – no problems. As you approach the Keys, crab pots are EVERYWHERE and can only be described as a mine field, even in the middle of the marked channel. Keep a sharp lookout, go slow, and forget your depth alarm – it will be useless. If you follow Tom’s weather musings for the Big Bend crossing, he posts a disclaimer that his advice is dispensed based on a specific boat with its characteristics and his tolerance for risk which clearly falls on the conservative side. I share his risk philosophy of being conservative as this is supposed to be fun boating – not a race or a delivery captain mission. Each skipper is responsible for their own decisions after gathering all available data. You should make your decision based on your personal risk tolerance, your boat’s ability to handle different sea conditions, your level of competence and training, and your personal tolerance for what conditions you are willing to accept. Keep in mind that this leg is open water and is a LONG way from help if something goes wrong. VHF radio coverage is spotty in places, and cell phones simply won’t work as you go around the Everglades. I personally carry an EPIRB just in case the VHF or cell phone won’t summon help. You should be prepared to be self-sufficient for this leg or travel with a buddy boat. If you can be patient and are not on a specific timeline, you can pick a suitable weather window and have a non-memorable open water trip to the Keys. Dave & Nan Ellen Fuller
Pink Shell Resort and Marina - Click for Chartview
The Pink Shell Resort guards the southern shores of the Mantanzas Pass channel, west of Moss Marine, making this new marina the first facility encountered as one enters from the waters of the open Gulf. This fresh facility is clearly a GREAT addition to the cruising scene for the waters hard by the southerly genesis of the Western Florida ICW, and the westerly extreme of the Okeechobee Waterway/Caloosahatchee River.
We stayed at Pink Shell January 22nd through the 27th. The weather was cool but it is a fantastic place to stay. Very friendly and helpful staff. As Marina guest you have access to all resort amenities. Heated pools, fitness center, steam room, spa bathrooms and showers etc. The beach is beautiful. There are restaurants on site and the public bus will take you to the local supermarket or Publix. The town of Ft. Myers Beach is within walking distance. A great place if you have family visiting. Great for children as well. Claudia Young
Captain DeGroot relates an example of exceptional professionalism in boat maintenance. Star Boat Shop does not have a website, but their address is 1480 NE Fiveash Rd, Arcadia, FL 34266, 863-494-5777. Arcadia is almost in the center of the state at the intersection of State Rd 70 and US 17.
I have been sailing over 40 years, worked with many boat yards in the Great Lakes and Florida. And, as a yacht broker also worked with many independent contractors hired to do projects on mine and my client’s boats. After 20 years of ownership of a 1985 Irwin 43′, My wife and I decided we really wanted to freshen her up and repainting the mast and boom came up high on the list. I carefully researched many possible individuals and companies to do the task, and in Southwest Florida, one name kept being mentioned, “the Russians!” The “Russians” are actually the team from the Star Boat Shop, now of Arcadia Florida. Their owner is Arthur Anasov, now an American citizen who immigrated from the old Soviet Union. For the past many years they had been doing spectacular jobs, repainting hulls of vessels from a quansut building located in the Charlotte Harbor Boat Storage yard at Placida FL. When I contacted Arthur in the fall of 2011, I found him very pleasant and super knowledgeable about boats and boat painting, and racing, as he is a world class small boat racer, sailing in regattas around the world. After inspection of my mast and boom, and discussing a time frame, he quoted a very fair, reasonable price, and we scheduled the work. When completed in a few weeks, it looked like a brand new mast and boom. I had asked Arthur how long I could expect it to hold off the old corrosion, and he said three to five years. I felt that would be the best we could do with how corroded is was before the effort. Move forward one year to fall of 2012. Corrosion had begun already, in a few limited spots on the lower part of the mast and the seam of two sections of the boom. I called Arthur. In a few days, he came to the boat and looked and simply said, this should not be. Something was not done correctly and he would clean it up. We mutually decided to wait a year and evaluate it again before any clean-up work was done. Now in September of 2013 I again called Arthur, who was racing somewhere in the Baltic, but I got a message back from him, he would be in contact as soon as he returned stateside. Sure enough. He come over to the boat, a time table was set and work would be commencing. I figured a few hours would clean it up, and I would be happy with any effort. When Arthur and his crew arrived, they went to work. Five man days later, he announced he was satisfied, if I was. I was not just satisfied, I was impressed. I asked Arthur, how much do I owe you. He said, “NOTHING!” “And if it does it again in the next few years I’ll be back”.Speak of professional integrity! He and his crew did a beautiful job, as promised. If you have any need for hull, or mast painting or other major projects I suggest you consider Arthur Anasov of the Star Boat Shop. Give him a call at 941-204-0607, or email me and I will be proud to provide his contact information. Capt John D. DeGroot SV Independence
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Comments from Cruisers (1)
Woody Allen- March 16, 2018 - 6:49 pm
Shhh- Please don’t tell anyone.
Arthur is a craftsman in the best sense of the word – but we want to keep him a secret to the the small boat world for ourselves and our boats
Little Shark River Outer Anchorage - Click for Chartview
Little Shark River is an interesting, but sometimes very buggy anchorage that lies well south of Everglades City and a short hop north of Cape Sable. It is one of the most backwater cruising possibilities in all of Florida. The SSECN recommends three Little Shark River anchorages in our Western Florida Anchorage Directory, but there are actually several dozen spots you might choose to drop the hook. These reports come to us from the Great Loop forum.
Going south from Marco I. we have stopped at the Little Shark River. One time we found it to be buggy on warm, windless night. Every other time (about five) we have found it to be a pleasant, quiet stop. VERY remote with plenty of place to anchor. Mitch & Carole On Serendipity
A good stop for the night when traveling out of Marco is Little Shark River. This breaks the trip up into two nice segments. When anchoring in Little Shark, go up the river 1/2 mile or so past the entrance. You will find good depths and good holding. Plan on a fast tidal current in both directions, inbound and outbound. This current will set you securely on your anchor for the night. Even with the cool temps currently being experienced, have screens ready for the bugs. Marty and Jerry Richardson onboard M/V Monarch
In the spring of 2013, we had a lengthy discussion on Big Sarasota Pass, /?p=111868. Now Captain Ray brings us valuable local knowledge.
I am a local, and the pass is more than just dicey these days. Over the past year’¦last week we sailed our Mariner 31 outside and back, drawing 3’10’³, and saw 5’6’³ at high tide. That’s down from 7′ only a few months ago. Be careful if you must come into Big Pass, pretend you are a large barge and make wide turns around the floating markers on your way in. Captain Ray
Captains Lloyd and McKane offer good advice and recommendations of routes and stops on the sail from Marco Island to Marathon, as originally posted on the AGLCA Forum, www.greatloop.org.
From Sanibel Island I usually head for Naples, then you can take an inside route behind Marco Island. Charted depth is 4′ but depth increases by 3′ at high tide. Pay attention after Bear Point bridge as daymark colors switch sides. A red daymark appears to be out of position but it is not! Definitely stop at Goodland, an old-time fishing village that is a marked contrast to the rest of Marco Island. Calusa Island Marina is within walking distance of restaurants. Some boaters recommend Everglades City but I usually go directly from Goodland to Little Shark River in Everglades National Park. This area of the park consists of mangrove Islands and hardwood hammocks, not acres of sawgrass that one usually associates with the Everglades. There is a very protected anchorage about 1.5 miles up river. I recommend a direct route from Little Shark River to Seven Mile Bridge and stop at Marathon. Alan Lloyd
For weather we used the National Weather Service’s graphical forecast tool for Florida (http://graphical.weather.gov/sectors/florida.php#tabs). It shows wind, wave, precip forecasts in an easy format. As for going to Marathon, we overnighted at Middle Cape near Cape Sable which allowed us to get an early start. You get good protection and comfort when the wind is coming in from the E or NE. Some other loopers stayed at Snake River and left from there. In either case, stay inside the park’s waters as long as possible to stay away from the crab pot markers. For the passage, it is pretty much a straight run from market MG off Cape Sable to John Sawyer Bank (about 20 NM). Actually it’s not really a straight run. Florida Bay is covered/littered/blanketed with crab pot markers and requires a lot of weaving left and right. Take extra care navigating this area. I spoke with 2 other loopers in the past month who got their props fouled. We are staying at the Boathouse Marina and love it. It’s across from Vaca Cut, about 4 miles from Publix, etc. Have a safe voyage. Bob & Loretta McKane
Veterans Hospital Anchorage lies northeast of the ICW’s flashing daybeacon #6.
This is a nice anchorage with a few local boats but plenty of room at 6ft depths. Dinghy north back under the bridge where McDonalds’¦yes McDonalds ! has a very nice dock to tie to on the eastern shore. Near this is a Publix (currently closed(1-15-14) for an upgrade.) New Walgreens also nearby. Rich Estes
Snead Island Boat Works and Marina, Palmetto, FL, is located on McKay Point in the Manatee River off Tampa Bay. 941-722-4450
We left our boat at Snead Island Boatworks while we returned home for the holidays. They hauled the boat out, painted the bottom, waxed the hull and did engine maintenance work. When we returned yesterday, the boat was in the water waiting to continue our great loop adventure. We found the people at Snead Island Boatworks to be knowledgeable, friendly and charged a fair price for all the work that they did. We have no interest in Snead Island other than that of a satisfied customer. Sharon Simion
We have been launching boats at Snead Island Boat Works for 38 years. They are professional, knowledgable, honest and consistent in their work. We gladly recommend them every chance we get. They are the best of the best. Ed Massey
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