Capt. Adler recommends this website for Waterway depths. It is a good-looking site.
From: Roy Adler
Subject: Waterway depths
Cruising News:
check out http://argus.survice.com/argus_sample_data.asp
Data looks good and is current.
More food for thought on the subject of boardings. This all goes back to the story of a very unsettling boarding which took place during November of 2010 in Volusia County, Florida (see /?p=45038). This incident caused an uproar here on the Cruisers’ Net, and elsewhere. Captain Greer’s note below is in response to this incident.
While I agree that boarding cruising sail boats the way these law enforcement personal have done is unsettling at the least. we must remember that it is Florida, the drug running capital of the world and this is why it happens. The smugglers are skilled and trying to look like ordinary recreational vessels. Therefore, while sailing in these waters the best thing to do is always be prepared to cooperate with the authorities that are trying to make the area safe and keep illegal drugs out of our country. just food for thought. If we were boarding a boat that might be a front for drugs. knowing that these people will shoot first if possible. would we give them any warning? or would we want to secure all personal on the boat as quickly as possible? I know I know. It feels like a violation of our basic rights. but it’s their job.
Mickey Geer
And, appropriately, LOTS of other points of view from the cruising community:
If the drugs were legal, the drugs could be regulated then taxed to pay the regulators to tyrannize the drug dealers. Instead the boaters are legal and taxed to pay the regulators who tyrannize the boaters in the War On Drugs. In the immortal words of Earl Pitts’¦’WAKE UP AMERICA’
David Burnham
It doesn’t only ‘˜feel’ like a violation it IS a violation. Yet another apologist for jack booted thugs. I’m very happy I don’t live there.
Bosunj
It is not their job to violate anyone’s rights. I do not know the particulars of this situation but I am just saying that it is not their job to violate anyone’s rights. Their job is to enforce the law within the limits of the constitution. In the USA we draw lines and fences. They cannot cross the basic rights fences. It is for very good reason that we do this. I am curious, is a search warrant required to enter somone’s boat without their permission?
Edward Trzebiatowski
Click Here To View the 2010 Report That Prompted Mickey’s Comments
The Moore Haven Railway Bridge crosses the Okeechobee Waterway, a short hop west of the Moore Haven Lock. It has a bare, closed vertical clearance of only 5 feet, so it it closes on you unexpectedly, that could be a REAL problem, as Captain James learned to his misfortune!!!
Be aware that this bridge can close without any signal. On Jan 27 at 3 PM we were traveling E to the Moore Haven lock after calling for a lock through with the lock master stating the lock was open to us and we could proceed. The railroad bridge was open. As we approached the bridge it appeared to be stuck in a partially closed position. We proceeded but too late to realize that it was indeed closing and we were impaled causing severe damage to the forward sections of the boat. At no time was there any signal, warning or individual present. Retreating to the City Docks witnesses confirmed that no signal was heard although they had heard it clearly on other occasions. I later discovered that the bridge has no radio contact or communication with the adjacent lock. I have had previous experience with this bridge waiting one and half hours for the bridge to open in a swift current and no communication. They seem to operate without regard to water traffic as opposed to the locks. I will update you as to
any legal actions.
Tom James, Captain
“Tortuga” Krogen 42
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the Moore Haven Railway Bridge
Captain Burnham’s message below is somewhat cryptic, but if I read it rightly, the city of St. Petersburg, Florida is attempting to limit anchorage in their corporate waters to 3-days in a particular spot, and 9 days total, within any 30 day period. As such, these are possibly the most Draconian proposals put forward by any of the five municipalities/counties which are part of the Florida Pilot Mooring Field Program. Fortunately, there is still a LOT of public comment to be registered, and the FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission) must agree to all restrictions before they can be passed and enforced. As St. Augustine learned last fall, the FWC is very reluctant to approve such short term anchorage limits.
Notice that Captain Burhnham points out that the real bugaboo in all of this is derelict vessels. Can I say it just one more time. This IS a real problem in Florida, BUT this problem can be solved by enforcement of EXISTING marina salvage laws and MSD regulations. Why try and limit anchorage for everyone, when the very real derelict problem is being caused by a tiny minority of boat owners?
I attended the meeting and received a draft copy of the proposed changes to the City Code.
As written, it allows me to do things on a three day weekend that would really annoy most boaters and marina operators. It allows me to anchor within 200 feet of any marina or boat ramp and stay there for 3 days as long as I am not an obstruction or a `hazard to navigation’. It would seem to me that any anchored vessel is an obstruction to be avoided’¦
Within any 30 day period, I can anchor consecutively in the Central Yacht Basin, the South Yacht Basin, or Bayboro Harbor for 3 days each, allowing me a 9 day stay without mooring fees. There is no beginning time or ending time for my 72 hour stay at each location so if I drop anchor in the Basin after sundown and no one notices until the next morning, the first night is not counted in the 72 hours?
Last night’s public forum was a good meeting for the boating public to ask the city to clearify the intent of their proposal.
What St. Petersburg apparently wants is to prevent vessels from being abandoned by the few irresponsible owners who neglect vessel maintenance. As drafted, their proposal does not address this except to state that `hazardous’ vessels are prohibited from anchoring in the waterways of St. Petersburg; which is not in agreement with Florida State Law in regards to navigation. `Hazardous’ vessels means a vessel in danger of becoming a derelict for various subjective reasons listed.
If the proposal begins constructive dialog between the boating public who visit St. Pete and the city managers, then last night was a successful beginning.
David Burnham
After reading the above, we asked Captain Charmaine Smith Ladd, founder of BARR (Boater’s Anchoring Responsibility and Rights), to comment on the proposed St. Pete regulations. Her response appears below.
January 26th, 2012
by Charmaine Smith Ladd
csmithladd@marinersbarr.org
For your perusal and comments, the proposed ordinance draft for St. Petersburg:
http://marinersbarr.org/fpp/docs/st_petersburg/draftanchorrdinance-2012-01-26.pdf
Things to note: LIVEABOARDS will not be able to anchor anywhere within the City Limits of St. Petersburg, they MUST either take a mooring or a marina slip; NON-LIVEABOARDS (cruisers) effectively will be under a 72-hour limit for anchoring. The ordinance also reads: “No vessel shall anchor in the Port of St. Petersburg.” Very broad and very disturbing.
St. Petersburg – Scheduled Public Meetings:
February 16th at 3:00 pm – St. Petersburg City Council Meeting, 1st Reading
March 1st at 8:30 am – St. Petersburg City Council Meeting, Public Hearing
Location: Karen A. Steidinger Auditorium Fish & Wildlife Research Institute
100 Eighth Avenue SE, St. Petersburg, FL 33701
The postings so far had me very concerned until I carefully read the proposed ordinance. While it prohibits anchoring of liveaboard vessels anywhere in the city limits, the 72 hour rule only applies within 200 feet of marinas and boat ramps and in the three basins and the Port basin downtown. It does not apply for cruisers (non-liveaboard vessels) in other anchorages in St. Pete like Coffeepot, the two bayous, or Maximo Point (a favorite of ours). The 72 hour limit does not apply to the entire peninsula or city limits!
If it passes approval by the FWC with the 72 hour limit intact, we will simply NEVER visit or spend our money in downtown St. Pete again. We will vote with our anchor and go to more cruiser friendly places! In it’s effort to deal with abandoned and derelict boats the City of St. Petersburg is telling cruisers that they are not welcome except for a short stay. They don’t treat tourists that way who arrive by car or plane instead of by boat.
There is no `safe harbor’ provision in the proposed ordinance so the police can kick you out into a storm if they want. My guess is that the FWC will require a `safe harbor’ provision be added.
Larry Sherman
And now, more from Captain Burnham on this issue. Many, many thanks for his fine reporting of this critical cruising issue:
My first comments were truly cryptic as they closely follow the draft proposal from the St. Petersburg City Code which in itself I found it to be cryptic in its intent.
The stated intent of Article 6 in Chapter 7 is to encourage the use of the new mooring field in the North Basin. Presently, only one of the 13 new moorings is occupied. Six boats are anchored behind the seawall in the South Basin, and 5 sailboats are at anchor in the Bayboro Basin south of the Port of St Petersburg.
These 11 sailboats are all in good condition and within their rights under Florida State Laws of Navigation even though they appear to be within the `City Limits’. I have not found how far the St. Petersburg city limits extend into Tampa Bay, but they do go from the Clearwater/St. Petersburg Airport all the way around the Pinellas peninsula to Boca Ciega Bay with the exception of the City of Gulfport!
If all 11 sailboats moved to the mooring field, their daily rate would be 14 dollars if under 41 feet in length and 17 dollars if 41 feet to 60 feet. This is significantly less than the average 80 dollar daily rate for a 40 foot vessel at the Transient Dock. If any of these cruisers rent a vehicle while on a mooring and wish to park it at the marina overnight, the daily fee is $2.80.
During the peak winter season, 2 months is the maximum length of stay on the moorings but you can return after 15 days if there is a mooring still available.
The proposed 72 hour time limit for anchoring in any Basin in the city limits will only serve to push the cruisers over to Gulfport which does not yet have an established mooring field in Boca Ciega Bay or other more curtious anchorages in the Tampa Bay area.
The FWC officers are more concerned with abandoned boats, not the well kept cruiser, and preventing boats from becoming derelicts with the associated hazards.
The term `live aboard’ is used differently in the boating community and causes confusion. Until the boaters accept the term `live aboard’ to mean a vessel that is NOT used for navigation (think boat house instead of houseboat) and has no means of propulsion, cruisers staying on their boats will be unsure of the proposed rule’s intent.
The Port of St. Petersburg, south of the city airport, where all the U.S. Coast Guard and commercial ships are berthed is not a suitable anchorage for smaller cruising boats.
David Burnham
While I am not familiar with the local geography of the S. Pete waters I am a cruiser-resident of nearby Plant City, Hillsborough County, Florida, and have occupied and cruised continuously aboard my vessel for 8-1/2 years. Our vessel is currently in a mooring field in San Blas Islands of Panama.
Like the City of St. Pete, we `full-time’ cruisers are also unhappy with derelict vessels. They are a hazard to navigation, safety and the environment. In inclement weather conditions they can, and have, drifted loose from their `anchored’ position and damaged other vessels. If not maintained in a reasonably clean and preserved condition, they negatively impact our enjoyment of the waters in which we choose to anchor.
I believe there should be a distinction between 1) derelict vessels, 2) vessels that are `stored’ on the water, i.e., not capable of safe navigation, and 3) vessels that are anchored/moored and capable of safe navigation. And I would argue that an unoccupied vessel is not capable of safe navigation.
Boat ownership is a responsibility that includes being a safe and considerate `neighbor’ to nearby vessels and property, and to their owners and occupants.
There is no reason to penalize a responsible owner-occupant of a cruising vessel who chooses to anchor safely for extended periods in an urban waterway.
On the other hand, I also believe that nearby vessels and property should have protection from `derelict’ and/or `stored’ vessels when they present hazards to their neighbors. The longer a non-navigable, or unoccupied vessel remains at anchor, the greater hazard it represents. Storms create a great danger that such vessels will come loose and damage other vessels or property. Ill-kept, non-maintained vessels are a public hazard and nuisance. I realize that `nuisance’ is hard to define, but city codes have addressed this with respect to real estate, so there is precedent in regulating such matters in a community-acceptable manner.
I think the City of St. Petersburg should consider the above discussion in its regulation and re-write the proposed ordinance to allow for responsible, long-term anchoring for occupied vessels.
Carl Gaines
I have spent many enjoyable hours anchored in St. Pete’s Vinoy Basin, the North Harbour, when I first started cruising south. While there, I met cruisers from as far north as Nova Scotia and as far south as the eastern Caribbean. Not a derelict vessel in sight. Never a problem.
Now, because the city would not enforce laws available to it to deal with a half dozen near-derelict vessels in the Basin, I’m forbidden to ever again anchor there, because they’ve put moorings in?
Let me be blunt, because I’m fed up with this crap from the state of FL.
I’ve just spent three very pleasant weeks in Brunswick Ga., 35 miles north of Florida. It was nice to feel welcomed.
When I leave here tomorrow, the goal is to remain offshore as much and as long as I can, until I can get to the Bahamas, and to hell with Florida.
All of it, every bit of it. I don’t need their attitude towards me, my boat and my needs, because Florida officials cannot deal with their drunks and druggies living on derelict boats in a manner responsible to those who would visit, spend money and respect their state.
Since I singlehand, I’ll have to come inshore to rest. But I intend to buy enough fuel and food here in Brunswick, GA so that I don’t spend a cent in their damned state.
Wally Moran
Well, I don’t visit cities where boaters are not welcome, nor do my MANY boating friends ‘“ AND WE DON’T SPEND OUR CONSIDERABLE MONEY THERE! WAKE UP MERCHANTS!!!!!
August Trometer
The money spent by anchored cruisers is quite small in the grand scheme of things. And from the ordinance writers perspective, if you won’t even spend money on a mooring ball, let alone dockage, how much money will you spend ashore? Comparing cruisers to motorists doesn’t work, you can’t camp out in the rest stops or along the side of the road. You’ll need a better angle.
Livaboards are not the issue in St. Petes either. The Harborage marina openly welcomes livaboards, they have the city permits to allow it and have many amenities geared specifically to livaboards.
I think it is the derelict boats that is the heart of the matter. Can Cruisers Net or other organizations come up with a plan & assistance with facilitating the removal of the derelicts.
The other issue is `bum boats’. Those boats that are not ‘˜derelicts’ but do not look good at all. They are eyesores that do no good for the cause. Many (but not all) would love to see a beautiful boat at anchor in the harbor, but seeing an eyesore exacerbates this sort of issue. Hard to say what could be done. Personal responsibility can’t be legislated but it is contributing to the problem. The solution’¦kick em all out.
Ted
Editor’s Response – Ted, if you will look at my earlier editorial, “Whence Come the Anchorage Regulations” at /?p=4958, you will see that we have come up with a scheme to get rid of derelicts, and it requires no new laws, nor does it harass the cruising community. Of course, many others have noted these same solutions. It’s not just the SSECN!
As a resident of St Petersburg and its environs (now Treasure Island) since 1986, and before that at Stetson Law School in the late 50’s, I have always thought of our city as a boater friendly town, certainly a very prominent sailing city with a world renown yacht club. I applaud the decision to install moorings in the Vinoy Basin where the holding has always been poor, but to link that to a limit on anchoring, whether deemed a reasonable period or not, is unreasonable ‘“ clearly the elephant getting its nose in the door as a precursor for more regulations. Address the problem of derelict boats, but keep St Pete boater friendly.
Charles (Chuck) Waygood
A 72-hour limit in a 30-day period is ridiculously short. It would mean that someone couldn’t visit two weekends in a row, unless they anchored in one of the other locations. It would mean someone couldn’t anchor there during the entire boat show. A prohibition of `liveaboards’ anchoring at all is simple prejudice, and I suspect would instantly be ruled against in a court of law. Even though the Florida definition of `liveaboard’ is narrow that doesn’t mean they suddenly become second-class citizens. This ordinance severely impacts legitimate transient cruisers, will do little to deal with the truly hazardous boats, and painst St. Petersburg as an unfriendly place that does not want boaters to visit.
John Kettlewell
We were considering a vacation to the West coast of Florida and renting a houseboat or motor yacht around 40 ft to cruise the icw from the Keys to Tampa St Pete. we owned a 44 ft boat in that area quite a few years ago and sold due to anchorage nonsense, we had thought that issues had been resolved over the past few years and thought we would re visit the areas we enjoyed we are from the PNW, reading the current situation, we will spend our vacation money elsewhere. Sad to see the loss of freedom keeps creeping in the yachting community, good luck in the future.
I remember stopping at a marina in Fort Lauderdale on my 40 foot Pacific Seacraft sailboat. I planned to shop, visit some restaurants, restock the boat, and have some service work done. All in all, I probably was going to spend close to $1000. I took my dogs, and headed off for a walk. I saw signs prohibiting dogs from the beach, so I kept them on the street.
Apparently, the prohibition also covered the street in front of the beach, so a cop stopped me, and demanded ID. After a pile of intrusive questions, he told me that he could arrest me for violating the dogs on the beach ordinance. Maintaining my cool, I apologized, and indicated that I thought that the prohibition only covered the beach. I indicated that I planned to get off the street at the next cross street. After logging me into the system, he let me go with a warning.
Within 15 minutes, I cancelled the rest of my stay at the marina, and was back on the water heading north within the hour. I spent my money at another locale.
I will never return to Lauderdale under any circumstances.
Spend your time and money where you are welcomed. I certainly did.
I moved here from New England and as a boater since age 2, I am very disappointed with the availability of moorings here (Tampa area). Boating is such a healthy outdoor activity for the whole family. Go to New England, you will see boats on moorings as far as the eye can see, and they only have a 4 month season. I had planned on buying a 24 ft. sloop but I am afraid I will have to abandon the Idea altogether. Personally, at $400 per month for a mooring, I am forced to leave my favorite past time to a high end class of people who will continue to enjoy sailing as much as I did. I have been priced out. It seems like boating here is discouraged rather that encouraged and fully advocated for.
Well, of course, these good people are a SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR!
This is a great product! Just spray or wipe on let it sit for 30 minutes and rinse the rust away. It sure beats polishing. JUst rinse very well with fresh water.
Our Lord’s Blessing
Ed & Bonnie
S/V Almost Heaven
What a GREAT posting about our newest SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET SPONSOR! And, oh yes, I was just here a few weeks ago myself, and I agree completely with Captains Pilon and Salette!
MARINELAND MARINA
I arrived at Marineland Marina a month ago for what I thought would be few days. Why? What happened to my migration south? Maybe I should not tell you this ; I worry you all make this change’¦
I tell you this as it comes to my mind, no particular order, nor by importance:
– It is clean, perfectly clean.
– It is new, brand new marina
– Prices are VERY affordable. In fact, on a monthly basis, it is MUCH cheaper than moorings you will find in St-Augustine, even for bigger boats.
– Free (yes as in 0.00$) laundry
– Staff is great. They all go further than expected to make sure you like Marineland Marina. I know first hand.
– Marineland Marina is across the A1A road to a beach, large, miles long, and super quiet. I go there everyday for a walk and most of the days I am alone / or we are 3 or 4. In fact on this few miles beach stretch the most people I saw were 6!!! This is rare in Florida, rare in USA, just rare everywhere.
– A1A route is super quiet here. Except Marineland and few houses for rent, there is not much around
– Bike path on this A1A stretch (5 miles north, 5 miles south) is very wide and secure and quiet!
– Many parks and reserves at walking distance
Other info:
– The Publix is about 4 miles away
– Many restaurants deliver to Marineland Marina
– You can visit Marineland, the other side of the street
– They organise kayak tours, right here at the marina
– Nice restaurant / bars at bicycle distance
– Be sure to mention to Chris the draft of your boat. Most slips are more than 6 feet but some (3 or 4 slips) have less than 5 feet mlw.
– They have nice floating docks for transients.
– Pet friendly marina
How come it is not more known? I think because Marineland Marina has been abandoned for 10 years until they completely rebuilt it 6 month ago / most of cruising guides you have on board are out-dated’¦
Marc Pilon and Andrée Salette
Sv Ma Muse, still at Marineland Marina for few more weeks
Just wanted to echo everything Marc and andree said, marineland marina is a great facility, we too dropped in for a day or 2 and are now staying a month. The beach is beautiful and this stretch of the ICW is unspoiled and borders a huge nature reserve with many creeks to explore by dinghy and plenty of wildlife to see.
Can’t recommend it enough.
Helen and Dickie
S.v.harmony
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Marineland Marina
Wonderful news to hear that the Miami/Dinner Key Mooring Field is being operated in such an efficient, cruiser friendly fashion. Cruisers can now put this facility on their list of stopovers with confidence!
After reading the reviews I was skeptical of this marina. However the mooring field is a different division of the marina and you can tell it in the pride and we care attitude of James and his helper (sorry I did not get his name). After talking with James on a Sunday afternoon on our way down he gave us preliminary instructions and assigned us a mooring ball. Upon entry one call on the radio and James gave us final instructions and then made a stop to check if everything was okay. The next morning without a call his helper stopped by with the pumpout boat to see if we needed a pumpout and we did. After that we checked in. James gave us info about the marina, showers, places to eat and where to get supplies. These two guys made for a great experience. I’m sure they would always go out of their way to accomodate the customer.
S/V indecision
Capt. Mike
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the Dinner Key Mooring Field
We had two earlier reports here on the Cruisers’ Net that marker #11, on the Capri Pass channel was off station, and issued an SSECN Navigation Alert for these waters (see /?p=77958). Captain George’s report below confirms that this marker is still not where it should be as of 1/16/02!
As of 1/16/2012 this marker is still off station and is very near marker #2 as entering from seaward. In the daytime it is not that confusing, but coming in at night, tired from a long passage and unfamiliar with Capri Pass could cause some confusion.
Thanks
George
s/v John Galt
With his 6.25 ft draft, Capt. Pascal keeps a very sharp eye on the Waterway’s trouble spots and we can rely on the accuracy of his reports and the depths recorded here coincide with earlier reports of 5.8 feet at dead low in this perennial “AICW Problem Stretch” south of Charleston, SC. Penny’s report of Jan 23 suggests that the channel is shifting with the renewed shoaling.
I found shoaling to have worsened significantly over the summer in the southern section between the Coosaw and Rock creek. I follow the exact same path and found depths to be almost 2 ft shallower than back in May. I had planned to arrive with 3′ of tides remaining and ended up squeaking by with just a ft under the wheels (6.25 draft). This is definitely a play-the-tide stretch for most and close to Lil Mud River level.
Everything else so far is pretty much unchanged since spring.
Here are my notes:
MM516 Ashepoo Coosaw Southern section, 6′ to 7′ MLW most of the way but some 4.5 to 5′ MLW spots just north of R184. This is down almost 2′ from this spring on the same line. Make sure you come in or exit the southern end of the cut at an angle as shown on the charts (by R184/G195).
A new can G177 has been added by the FL G 177 to mark the shoal.
Note that the northern section of the cut off bet R166 and R172 is no problem, over 12′ MLW.
Capt. Pascal Gademer
Cruising News:
Claiborne
Just came through the Ashepoo-Coosaw Cutoff roughly two hours after high tide, +5.8′, and the lowest depth readings were 10.8′, suggesting there would be only 5′ at low. Looks like severe shoaling; suggest transiting with this in mind.
So far, in our transit south this year from Sandy Hook to Delray Beach, this is the first serious shoaling we encountered.
Mike Horowitz aboard ALTAIR
Just came through the Ashepoo Coosaw cutoff 3 times in the last 6 weeks. At the southern end near the Coosaw river, I saw 6 ft. at dead low tide. Favour the red side going south.
The other two times I came through at mid tide rising and had no trouble. My vessel draws 5 ft. Hope this helps.
Phil Mullins
Just cleared the Ashepoo Coosaw Cutoff 1 hour after high tide with a 5 ft draft. Lowest water reported was 12 ft. near red 184. The new green can 177A is off station. Currently in the grass about 100 feet south of green day marker 177.
Dick White aboard M/V Emerald Lady
These updated reports are pretty accurate except showing even more shoaling as green markers 169 and 177 are standing in grass with 20-30 feet of sand/mud on the bank at just before low tide. Depth sounder went off more times than I care to count. stay exactly between R 184 and G 185 then hug south bank to avoid extending shoal just after before heading to R 186. Favoring red as mentioned in another report put us in the mud for a quick thrill.
Penny aboard Penelope
Click Here To View Another Recent Report from This Trouble Spot.
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For Ashepoo/Coosaw Cutoff
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
The discussion below is copied from the American Great Loop Cruisers’ Association mailing list!
Faster boats passing slower vessels on the AICW, or any confined waterway for that matter, is a topic that brings on endless debate, and, very often, bruised feelings between captains and crews. The messages below make some excellent points, but, believe me, this source of contention will probably never be solved completely!
I don’t want to upset anyone. But I have a 26′ boat and plan to travel the ICW. I know at times its hard to see the names on boats when approaching them. I normally would call and ask for a side to pass and if I can do a fast pass. With my boat I think my wake is less if I stay on plane rather then down in the water but fast enough to pass. Not to mention fuel to slow and go. Like I said I don’t want to upset anyone and I will follow the rules of the road. I hope to make alot of new friends and someday soon to
move up in size.
Dave
Dave we wrote a post in our blog on the changes we have seen on the ICW over the past 20 years and addressed that very issue. The post can be read at http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/2009/03/changes-on-icw.html. You are correct that in many smaller boats, staying on plane will cause less wake. Many boaters feel if you pass from a distance it will also cause less wake. Quite the opposite is true and the closer you are when passing, the less affect your wake has if you do it right. Here is an excerpt that describes our procedure for passing…
“In the interest of informing those unfamiliar, the rules of overtaking state that if you can not safely pass another vessel, you do not pass. Common courtesy from the boats that can’t travel very fast (you know who you are) dictates that you slow as much as possible to allow boats that can go faster (you know who you are) to pass safely. Those boats that can travel faster (you know who you are) must slow to a safe speed and reduce their wake so as not to cause damage or injury on the other vessel. Here is the procedure we have used successfully over the years without any complaints. We always approach the slower vessel dead astern of them and slow down to match their speed. We then call the vessel ahead to let them know we are there, which side we will pass on and ask them to slow down so that we can pass. We then pass as close in to the slower vessel as can be done safely and then move directly in front as soon as it is safe to do so. Once we are in front of the vessel we have passed, we can increase speed and go on our way with little inconvenience or discomfort to the other crew. It is a very simple procedure, but one that many have not yet mastered. Why can’t we all just get along?”
If we pull astern of a boat and they don’t answer the radio we usually give a blast or two on the horn depending on what side we want to pass them. If they don’t bother to answer the radio or slow down we continue on at a slightly faster speed and when we pull along side we ask them verbally to slow down if they want a smaller wake. It has been a topic of discussion amongst boaters for some time.
Chuck
Having travelled the ICW on our Loop, I am constantly amazed how people think they don’t have a wake if they are on plane. Sit in a trawler or a sail boat and find out how much wake there various boats can throw up. Radio the boat ahead and if you can’t find their name they generally will know you are coming behind them and reply. They will also slow down to allow a minimal wake pass. I can’t count the number of times I was waked and had things flying around the interior cabin and sending a message to the boat telling them I appreciated their wake. Lots of fun too, if you are at the upper helm. Courtesy is always good form!
I have taken the boater’s safty course. I have just found that most large boats don’t slow down and the wake I make just to over take them is 3 times larger then the one I make on plane. I know that on plane there is a wake but not near as large as when I’m slightly over idle passing. Please I’m not trying to be disrespectful and I will bid by the rules of the road.. It gets frustrating for both parties big or small..I know I have come off plane when a large boat is coming at me only to have him maintain speed so I think what’s the sense.
Proper Passing Distance:
Although this topic is directed towards proper passing, let me take this opportunity to pass on (no pun intended) my knowledge about proper passing distance. Two years ago, I asked a Georgia DNR Officer what his most frequent moving violation ticket was written for. His response “Improper passing distance”. Georgia has a 100′ rule as do most states. Here is a copy of the rule:
Improper Distance is not maintaining a proper distance while operating a boat or PWC or towing a person on water skis or any similar device. Specifically, it is illegal to:
Operate a boat or PWC or tow a person on water skis or any similar device at greater than idle speed within 100 feet of a:
– Moored or anchored boat or any boat adrift
– Dock, pier or bridge
– Person(s) in the water
– Shoreline adjacent to a full – or part-time residence
– Public park or beach or a swimming area
– Marina, restaurant or other public use area
– Run around or within 100 feet of another boat at greater than idle speed unless you are overtaking or meeting the other boat in compliance with the rules for encountering other boats
– Follow closely behind another boat, jump the wake of the other boat or change course or direction in order to jump the wake of another boat
Many waterways, canals and rivers on the ICW will cause us to encounter these “100 foot” meeting or passing situations and there are several hunderd miles of locations where we will be within 100 feet of a dock (private or commercial). While this quote is from the laws in Georgia, most ICW bordering states have similar rules on passing distance. Unless I am in fairly open bays, lakes, or wide rivers, I usually slow down to idle speed whenever I am in a passing or in an overtaking situation. I always slow down to idle if I am within 200′ – 300′ of fishermen, canoes and kayaks.
Douglas Townes
This rule is important, especially in Georgia where the compliance to the basic ICW standards are generally ignored by those responsible for their maintenance. At low tide, the controlled water depth for the ICW should be 12 feet minimum and the controlled width should be 150 feet minimum. Since much of the way at low tide is impassible for vessels drawing more than 3 or 4 feet at dead center channel and with the channel widths at mid-tide being less than 50 feet, it is beyond critical to slow to pass. Should
apply this rule to the ICW passages Florida (west coast), Georgia and New Jersey.
Bob
Bob & Kemba DeGroot
Dave:
Thanks for asking the question. As you can see, some of us have some not-so-good experiences with impatient and/or ignorant passers. Here in Miami, sometimes I feel like holidays are like figure 8 racing. On the ICW, coming under the Richenbacher Causeway Bridge to enter Biscayne Bay, I was passed by a 60 to 70 ft. yacht with twin jets while still under the bridge. He throttled up about half way through the no-wake area of the underpass, and left the whole place in a huge turbulence of bubbles. It was all I could do with full throttle, full rudder and bow thruster to keep me off the bridge wall, coming within a foot or so. If he looked back, it was probably to laugh along with the rest of the party crowd on the huge rear sun deck. I’d love to find him aground someday. Anyway, I appreciate your respectful attitude, and hope you keep our stories in mind when your
blowing by us slowpokes.
Lawrence Giles
The exchange of anchoring information below is copied from the AGLCA mailing list, and organization that all of us at the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net continue to HIGHLY recommend.
The SSECN Florida Keys Anchorage Directory actually notes (at least) three good, anchor down spots in Tarpon Basin. Captains Dave, Alan and Jean, speaking below, seem to refer to what we term the “Tarpon Basin Interior Anchorage.” Follow the links below to check out all three possible anchorages!
I am looking for Good/Safe anchorage (overnight) along the route from Key West to Miami.
Dave
Saltie, Mainship 40′
Try Tarpon Basin at ICW mile 1140 at red daymark 48A.
Alan & Jean Lloyd
There are many options and Alan’s is an excellent recommendation. There is a dinghy dock in the NE section of the [Tarpon Basin] cove. Picnic tables etc. next to the community building.
Ted
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Tarpon Basin
Now, here’s a new one on us. A check for chart 11411 seems to indicate that the marina spoken of so glowingly below, is located on Spring Bayou, which runs off the southern shores of Anclote River, just west of downtown Tarpon Springs. For many years, this was a shallow body of water, and that is why our on-the-water research never led us to this facility.
That will soon be changed, however, as I will be on the scene here during the first part of February, 2012, and you can bet a visit to Turtle Cove Marina will be on the top of my list. In the meantime, if anyone who has visited here has MLW depth info, PLEASE click the “the “Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, and share your information.
We are presently at the best marina we have encountered so far and that is saying something. Many friends had warned us about the perils of getting into the city dock and the poor facilities and then I saw a chance posting about a looper who had stumbled onto Turtle Cove Marina. I looked at it on Google Earth and said why not. You ease up the Anclote River to Red 50 and turn right just past the marker. Next take the first left and be sure to hug the boats on the port side through the turn as there is a shallow spot. You will dead end at Turtle Cove which has an artificial island in a cove with slips all around . Floating docks, great electrical. I have never seen better pedestals in a marina. It all looks brand new. Secure facility with locked gates. You get a key. They have a clubhouse and pool too. Gas at pumps and diesel with one day notice delivered direct to your boat by a truck that drives on the island and backs up to your slip. Ed is the owner and Peter is the dockmaster. The marina is one short block behind the town. No current, no wind, no problem. $1.50 per foot for loopers and BoatUS. Pumpouts at every slip. Can you believe this? And it is all a hidden treasure. You can call them at 727-934-2202. If you want to see it on Google Earth it is at 827 Roosevelt Blvd. I give it an A+.
Rusty and Jan Carlisle
I’ve always been a great fan of the [Tarpon Springs] municipal marina because it’s so close to the main drag on the island. However Turtle Cove sounds almost too good to be true. I know “the Judge” wouldn’t lie to us. After three times at the municipal dock, with its problems just to be close to “Hellas Greek Resturant” its Turtle Cove next time!!!
Thanks Judge!
Dave
Lisa and I are docked (for a week) at Turtle Cove Marina in Tarpon Springs Florida. Based on prior posts on this forum, I thought I’d add our two cents worth as it relates to our positive opinion. Turtle Cove is the place to be in Tarpon Springs if you like these amenities:
1. New floating docks
2. Free washer and dryer
3. Easy walk to sponge docks, restaurants and downtown
4. $1.50 per foot or discounted weekly stay (we’re paying .75 per foot for
a week)
5. Hot tub & swimming pool
6. Free pumps outs
7. Marina will also make arrangements for a fuel truck to come to your boat
8. Free truck and trailer storage (we have a trailerable Ranger Tug)
Jim & Lisa Favors
Ranger Tug R27 ‘“ Kismet
This is indeed a nice spot with wonderful amenities as described in the post below. Ed Spaeth the GM / owner is a very welcoming individual. It was a real treat to be met & welcomed by Ed & his team after our long crossing from Carrabelle.
Note that the approaches to this marina are not as difficult as it would appear from the posts below. Proceed up the Anclote River to red 50 and turn to Stbd and then closely hug the port shoreline passing closely to the vessels tied to shore. Avoid the shallows on the Stbd side of the channel as you enter.
There are a number of larger boats in the marina area that likely draw more than 5 feet.
From the marina it is a short walk into the center of town with grocery stores and bars. The floating dock area where we had tied up was very nice and new. It was however quite a long walk maybe 200 yards to the showers, laundry & clubhouse facilities
The rate of $ .75 per foot (per day?) for weekly stays for Loopers as posted below is incorrect. The correct rate is $7.50 per foot per week. That meant that instead of $199 per week for our 38 footer we were looking at $285 per week. We required a stay of between 2 & 3 weeks. On the very positive side If you pay for two weeks you can stay the next two free. Sort of like pay for 5 days stay for the next 2 free and equally pay for 2 weeks and stay free for the next two weeks I believe?
The Looper daily rate is 1.50 per day per foot which is a discounted rate from the normal $2.00 per foot per day rate
Here is a link to the marina’s site
http://www.turtlecove-marina.com/index2.html
Kismet
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Tarpon Springs and Spring Bayou
One of the most extensive and interesting discussions concerning the Okeechobee Waterway I’ve ever encountered, has appeared on the “GL” (Great Loop) mailing list, as of early January, 2012. I’ve cherry picked some of the best messages, and reprinted these on the Net’s “Okeechobee News” section. Follow the link below to access this posting, which is far too lengthy to reproduce here on our Home Page.
As you will see, there are different points of view about this passage and the marinas along the way. Also, contained within these messages is a wealth of good cruising info, and superb cruising tips, from a small army of veteran skippers.
We STRONGLY suggest that everyone who is contemplating a cruise across the Okeechobee, particularly first timers, read ALL the messages contained in this extensive posting. You’ll then have a very good idea what to expect while cruising the Okeechobee Waterway!
Click Here To View This Excellent Posting Concerning the Okeechobee Waterway
Baird Creek, charted as Beard Creek,liess on the north shore of the upper Neuse River north of Wilkinson Point. As Cat. Ben points out, it is marked by a single marker #1. All of us who have done any gunk-holing will enjoy this delightful tale of keel versus bottom, which will also explain why this particular creek is NOT in our North Carolina Anchorage Directory. Thanks for sharing, Capt. Ben.
Cruising News:
The long keel, forever hallowed be its name.
I may not lay claim to being the dumbest boater, but I strive for the top-five.
In North Carolina, we have three types of bottoms, pecan-sandy, chocolate-pudding mud, and occasionally rocky-road-oyster shoal. Hungry yet? We love to gunk hole. It’s almost not an adventure if I cannot jump out of the boat and pull it along with the rope or kedge the anchor. Where’s the fun in being sensible? Markers in our waters are usually inaccurate because last month’s hurricane made a shoal where the channel used to be. Soft groundings come with the territory.
What has saved us in our limitless search for shallow waters and low-cost barnacle scrapings has been our beloved full keel. That and our craft tops out at about eight knots. With a wind. In shallow waters I have the deep sagacity to reduce speed to around 3 knots, so as not to bump anything too hard. One day, I hope to be a smarter captain, but our current mode of gunk-holing has provided hours of adventure, angst, and amusement to my first mate, and I for one refuse to deprive her of the joys of seeing mud churn off our stern. She’s become quite the expert at spotting it.
On our last adventure, we decided to explore the deep reaches of the Northern Neuse River on Baird Creek just after Thanksgiving. It is marked by a single green “1” daymark and a smattering of private PVC pipes with colored tape jammed in the ground. If you were a golfer, you would call this one hazard-filled course. For a boater it generally tracks around 5 feet deep if you are mostly lucky and very careful. Ours is a single-screw trawler with the aforementioned full keel. Believe me, this captain needs it. Drawing a hair over 42 inches of water, I make it a point to scout out sailboat masts in any unfamiliar harbor, because it’s a good bet that that captain will need a full five feet to knock around in there. Seeing a few masts, we gingerly entered Baird Creek in the afternoon, threw out anchor and proceeded to lounge a bit. I had some minor wiring repairs to do with the generator, so went about that a little after some engine cooling.\
Around dusk we fired up the generator, only to realize the repairs made did not fix the root problem, which was the transmission of current from the output leads to the rest of our craft. Including the Two-cycle AC (It’s November and a little chilly. After some mutual frowning and head-scratching, my first mate advises me that with the low temperature forecast, we might do better comfort-wise back at our slip, about 10 miles up the Neuse. So after some long deep breaths, inhale/exhale style – to draw in air for the work ahead of course, I agreed with my mate and decided to get about hoisting the anchor.
Now, this is where the real adventure begins – Anchor, up, no worries. Despite scrubbing and rinsing we still brought a good amount of chocolate pudding aboard as we pulled chain in the dark. In addition, what I failed to notice upon coming into little Baird Creek, was that the wind had shifted to the North, blowing water up the Pamilco Sound and draining the Neuse a bit – lowering the water with one of the Neuse’s famous – or infamous – wind-tides. Our depth finder gets psychotic under 4 feet and we start showing about 700 feet of water whenever this happens – so 700 feet showing usually means we’re near a touch-point, and we were seeing this. We get going about a hundred yards and feel the slow, gentle shudder of bottom. OK- no good. Adrenaline and dismay. We back off a little, free ourselves, and try in a different direction. OK, not so bad, but not for long. We find bottom again. Gentle shudder. Chocolate pudding again. It’s pitch black out except for the small lights of the relatively few homes on Baird Creek. So we back off again and track slowly and surely very close to some of the homes with modest piers. This seems to work. Eventually, gingerly, and nervously we were able to exit Baird Creek with our running gear and some portion of our wits intact. But I can assure the reader any future trip there – in or out – will be in daylight and with a south wind keeping the water high in the Neuse. For Baird Creek – boater beware!
Thanks once again to King Neptune for providence and our long keel for its patience – it’s saved us from ourselves many a time.
Capt. Ben
M/V Sand Castle
Neuse River
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Beard Creek
Construction on this municipal dock was begun this past fall and its completion is very welcome news for folks wanting to visit the charming town of Belhaven. Docking is free with a 24 hour limit and the dock also provides dinghy dockage for cruisers anchored in the nearby Pantego Creek Anchorage.
Just thought you might like to know the Belhaven Town dock has been finished. I have attached three photos of the 1st two boats to dock. The BYC (Belhaven Yacht Club) found and assisted the town of Belhaven in getting the grant to do this project.
Andy Fisher
Cruising News:
Had the opportunity to be the first boat docked at the ‘New’ Bellhaven Town dock. Spent the night of 28 December there while aboard a Pearson 424… found pleanty of water for the 6′ draft. We took soundings in the dingy before we went in, and found 8′ all the way in (stay close to the old pilings). The entry channel has good water just stay in the middle until you see the new dock (near the hospital). Stayed the night with a friend on a Southern Cross 31 and were joined by another sailboat the next day. Local paper came out and officially pronounced the dock “open” (we made the front page).
The dock was constructed with money from a grant, and while no signs are up now, there is to be a 24hour limit. Trash disposal is available, and there is a public restroom across the parking lot. Close to the hardware store, and restaurant… great stop!
S/V Faith
Great News! I will make it a regular stop. And if there is any $$$ left over, how about installing a HarborCam so I can see from the waterway if there is room at the dock? Just asking.
Roger Hitchner
Painter, Hershine 41
Amenities? I don’t see power hookups,etc.
Al Ross
There is power and water as well a pump out.
At the very end of the main channel just before the bridge. Have to go in through a very small channel lined with rickety pilings. Looks improbable, but it is there. Wouldn’t have found it without the photos.
Keith
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Belhaven, NC
We have just had another recent posting here on the Cruisers’ Net about marker #11 in Capri Pass being off station, extracted from the Local Notice to Mariners (see /?p=77777). Captain Bob’s report below confirms this abberation! An SSECN Navigational Alert has already been declared for these waters. Follow the Chart View link below for more details.
Claiborne
Last week, December 30, my wife and I entered the Capri Pass into Marco Island and found next to the red marker #2, a green can bouy with #11 markings. The green can bouy was about 10 meters to the left of the #2 red marker while the #1 green marker was probably at least 70-90 meters to the left of the red marker #2.
When we left on January 1, the green can bouy had moved down near the #4 red marker. I hailed the Coast Guard on VHF channel 22A and was referred to a land line which I think was the Marco Island Fire Department–not really sure. I reported the situation but, having left the area, I have no idea if anything was done about this.
This marking can be very confusing to any vessel entering or leaving Capri Pass–especially if one is not familiar with the markings.
Bob Peterson,
Isles Yacht Club Fleet Captain
As of 1/16/2012 this marker is still off station and is very near marker #2 as entering from seaward. In the daytime it is not that confusing, but coming in at night, tired from a long passage and unfamiliar with Capri Pass could cause some confusion.
Thanks
s/v John Galt
Yours truly recently started a discussion about how the Florida Anchoring Rights controversy is impacting marine business in the Sunshine State, on the “Boating Writers International” Linked-In group. This group is NOT open to the general public, BUT, by special permission, we are reprinting below, a short, but side-splitting anchoring tale from fellow nautical writer, Captain George Bason. And, no, the incident described below did not take place on Southeastern USA coastline, but we still think it’s very much worth a read by ANYONE who takes to the water!
Not long ago off Narragansett Bay, a yacht was preparing to drop an anchor when a Coast Guard boat came alongside. The skipper was informed that he couldn’t anchor in this location. The skipper proceeded to chew out the poor coastie and told him that he was free to anchor where ever he wanted.
The coastie took a moment to respond, pulled out a chart and pointed out that he was about to drop the hook in an area that was well known to have un-exploded torpedos laying on the bottom. All he said was … “yes sir, you can indeed drop anchor here. Please wait for me to put a good distance between us before you do.”
George Bason
This troublesome stretch lies at the intersections of the Brickhill River, Crooked River and the Waterway, and Pascal’s report confirms earlier September reports of good depths here. Capt. McGuire addresses another of the problems in this stretch: the magenta line at red markers #60 and #60A is charted on the west side of the red markers rather than on the east side where one would expect it to be. Jim wisely reminds us to ignore the magenta line at those markers and pass them on the east side, i.e on your starboard when southbound and on your port when northbound.
MM704, Cumberland Dividings, all Markers have finally been moved and are marking the shoal on the red side. 12 to 15MLW throughout.
Capt. Pascal Gardemer
`Cumberland Island passage south. MM Marker 704-ish –Following the ‘˜recommended’ magenta line/route on the AICW south bound at buoys/daymarkers after 58A needs VERY SPECIAL ATTENTION!
Markers FL R 60, Q R 60 and FL R 62Aand R 62 MUST be left to STARBOARD ! Yes I know that makes perfect sense but when you look at the chart, the ‘˜recommended’ path follows the magenta line passes on the wrong side. It also passes into what looks like deep water ‘“that is WRONG. Follow your `eyes’the correct rounding of all the buoys is Red to Starboard, the chart will show this is running right across the shallows and the marsh ‘“trust your eyes, the buoys and your depth sounder and you will not dig clams.
Jim McGuire
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For the Cumberland Dividings
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
I have been preaching from my pulpit for years now, that the fly in the proverbial ointment when it comes to the struggle for Florida Anchoring Rights, is the very real problem of abandoned vessels (“derelicts”) and what I term, “live aboard hulks” (vessels that are being lived on, but which will probably never move again)! These problem vessels are the excuse that the anti-anchoring forces keep throwing in the mix every time the debate rages about Florida anchoring.
Many others here on the Cruisers’ Net, and on many other forums, have opined that the problem of derelicts and “live aboard hulks” can be solved with existing Florida laws and regulations, thereby not penalizing all other boat owners.
Now, our good friend, and true friend of the cruising community, Captain Jay Bliss, member of the St. Augustine Port Commission, has provided us with the means below to research derelict vessels in Florida, on a county by county basis. Thank you Captain Bay for providing this wonderful resource!
Hi Claiborne,
Here’s the pertinent website for the identification, procedures, for Derelict, Abandoned,and AtRisk vessels in FL
http://myfwc.com/media/407584/GeneralOrder21.pdf
For those that reside in any particular patch in FL, they can get an idea of the problem boats in a particular county by going to this site
https://public.myfwc.com/LE/ArrestNet/DerelictVessel/VesselMap.aspx
At that url, examine the Legend (rh side), then clik “Queries”. The page there allows you to type in a FL county. Do that, and press Search.
Your county will show problem boats as colored circles. Clik on a given circle, and you’ll see further details about that boat. Stats are in the lower left side of the page. You can compare counties, etc. You can learn dates boats were identified, etc. It’s a valuable tool to see how we progress in ridding our Public waters of problem boats.
Jay Bliss
These "live aboard hulks" aren't a problem as you describe. these are peoples homes. Shame on anyone who tries to take anyone's home away from them.
It’s good to hear of a very positive experience in the St. Augustine mooring field. We have an earlier posting here on the Cruisers’ Net describing an unhappy experience, NOT due to any failing on the part of the St. Augustine City Marina personnel, which manage these city mooring fields, but due to wake from local fishing vessels (see /?p=76385). Then, happily we also recent published a report that a local no-wake zone was going to be extended to encompass more of the city mooring fields (see /?p=76662). As you will read below, Captains Ed and Bonnie were the beneficiaries of this newly enlarged no-wake zone!
We have spent several days in the mooring field both spring and fall and have experienced the most courteous marina operators anywhere. In regards to the no wake issue there has been a definite improvement over this spring. We found no issues with commercial fishermen however we also have no problem sharing these waters with the real men & women of the sea.
Our Lord’s Blessings
Ed & Bonnie
S/V Almost Heaven
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the St. Augustine Mooring Fields
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To A “Navigation Alert” Position at the Position of Marker #11 at Capri Pass
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