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Comments from Cruisers (13) Add Comment

1. Ronald T. Markus -  December 25, 2015 - 4:43 pm

   What percentage of this rhetoric comes from people who are basically armchair sailors, or power boaters or even worse: land owners and the condo/homeowners association who should not even have any voice at all in the matter. The key word here is: land owner, or legally speaking the real property owner because there simply are no riparian rights in the Intracoastal Waterway, period.

   So why all the uproar? because these are the kind of people who seem to thrive on such moronic compulsive behavior, i.e exercising power over anyone and everyone and anything that they possibly can. This is also why they are wealthy, it is what they do, it is their very nature. Consider the eye of the needle. This is a group of people who also live in an experiential bubble, they do not understand what a sailors life is like, nor are they capable of living that life. The harbor masters statement amongst others here elucidates this point so very well:

   “I will not anchored my vessel overnight unattended as it is irresponsible to other craft and poor seamanship. If you take a road trip, the vessel should be on a mooring or in a marina”

   What on God’s blue planet is he talking about? poor seamanship? irresponsible? I have anchored my current sailing vessel out safely and without any incident for over an entire 7 years through hurricanes, tropical storms, summer squalls and strong gales and over that period of time I have indeed dragged anchor 3 times. Fully knowing when foul weather was approaching, I was aboard for two of those events. Zero harm came to my vessel, or any real property, I was never grounded and I regained control immediately in all cases without any help.
   I say, that if you are not competent or capable of safely anchoring a vessel overnight then you are just about a complete and total idiot and indeed probably should not be out there at all. You are the problem. Sadly as we all know this is actually the case so very many times and is really just the tip of the iceberg concerning capable operation of power vessels. I have watched from my cockpit as a single man anchored a 36′ sport fish trash heap with a mushroom anchor, 10′ of dog chain and a clothesline. Just like clockwork as soon as a moderate evening breeze arose that vessel was laying on a bar. Law enforcement, the condo association etc. are nowhere to be found until the photo-op and media event of the “derelict vessel” begins several hours later.

   I am truncating the rest of my comment because it involves a pending legal action.

   Reply to Ronald
2. joe t. cobbler -  December 6, 2015 - 7:55 pm

   If anchoring is outlawed and I am forced to a marina or mooring ball, I will not be able to justify the extra expense. And will have to leave sailing or downsize to a trailerable boat.
   I have and do comply with all laws regarding safety and operation of my vessel. For 7 years I have sailed to Florida (my home) and anchored, generally from nov-december through april-may and then departed for the summer. I sail my vessel often during the winter and, if time limits are effected, it would create a confusing and unsafe situation for me.
   There are currently laws to address permanently anchored non navigating flotsom ,these laws are not being enforced.

   Reply to joe
• Rick Cass -  December 18, 2015 - 3:09 pm

  Precicely. There should be no penalty imposed upon those who follow the law as it exists now, and who leave a clean wake. More regulations n can only lead to a “papers please” environment, where our lives would be limited by the most authoritarian policeman on the force.

  Reply to Rick
3. Jim Healy -  December 4, 2015 - 7:06 pm

   There are really two issues contained in this letter from Mr. Long: 1) the legal right of anchoring and 2) whether or not its prudent to leave an anchored vessel unattended. I will leave item 2 to the judgement of individual boaters.

   I’m not sure all of us are comfortable with “Second Amendment” as the analogy, but since Mr. Long – and also the letter from Dick Mills – raises the point on “anchoring rights,” I’ll summarize what I think I know about anchoring rights. I feel all boaters should be aware of this context, since it is what actually gives us our “rights” at law, and that we risk losing if we fail, as citizens, to pay attention, become and be involved.

   Early written rules and common-law regarding the right of access of vessels to navigable waters dates to the Romans, and unwritten custom pre-dates that back to the Phoenicians. Modern maritime law is formed by the evolution of custom and common-law into “cross-national,” “multi-national” and “inter-national” agreement.

   In the United States today, the US Supreme Court has ruled that all Navigable Waters in the US are the jurisdiction of the Federal Government under Article I, Section 8 (specifically, the Commerce Clause) of the US Constitution. (Citation: http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3237&context=lawreview). And of course, also by being signatories to international treaties.

   Corpus Juris Secundum says, “Moreover, public rights on navigable waters are not generally restricted to navigation in the strict sense but also encompass such incidental rights as are necessary to render the broader rights reasonably available, including the right of the navigator to anchor and to moor without unreasonably obstructing others’ navigation rights.” (Citation: 65 C.J.S. Navigable Waters s. 22, at p. 135.)

   Furthermore, there is a Florida Attorney General’s Opinion that states, “These incidental rights include the right of the vessel to anchor so long as it does not unreasonably obstruct navigation. The common-law includes rights of anchorage as an element of the exercise of rights of navigation.” (Citation: Florida AGO 85-45.) Note, this AGO does not extend to the aesthetic interests of wealthy waterfront landowners.

   So as I read the above, anchoring in St. Augustine, or at Jensen Beach, or at Sarasota, in a manner that does not obstruct adjacent waterways, and in conformance to other federal and state laws, should be entirely permissible.

   In general, the right to anchor indefinitely in one place is probably NOT unlimited, and may well be within state’s right to regulate. So to Dick Mill’s point, “apartment yachts” probably can, and should, be regulated by the state. But as a commercial enterprise, regulated separately from the rights of cruising boaters anchoring in the normal course of a cruising lifestyle.

   For those of us who care about this issue, and for those of us who try to influence government to make reasonable anchoring rules, the real issues is to focus on what is reasonable, and where the lines are between reasonable and unreasonable. In many, many areas of modern public life, it seems to me, “we the people” have a lot of trouble coming to reasonable accommodation with one another. That may be why, in Florida, this particular issue never gets settled. And why is spreads to other states, too.

   Jim

   Reply to Jim
• Ted Guy -  December 11, 2015 - 11:05 pm

  To my knowledge and in my experience as a retired maritime lawyer, Jim Healy is correct. I went to Tallahassee a number of times to lobby the issue for the Marine Industries Associations of the Treasure Coast and Florida, and actually wrote some of the language in ss 327.60, F.S. and others.

  Reply to Ted
• Dick Mills -  December 21, 2015 - 10:14 am

  This issue is current year after year, in state after state. How can we lobby for a federal court ruling that makes clear that no state has the authority to make such laws?

  It is bad policy and dangerous for an individual boater to defy an officer with a gun, protesting thst his state has no such authority.

  It also seems pointless to lobby at the state level.

4. Capt. Mike Wright -  December 4, 2015 - 5:14 pm

   Thank you, Rodger!!!!
   WE, THE ACTIVE BOATING PUBLIC, AS MARINERS, HAVE CERTAIN RIGHTS.
   Free navigation is one and anchoring is a part of that. These rights are granted by federal law and tradition.
   The condo owners have the right to free speech, or silence, and that’s where it ends.
   Capt. Mike Wright
   M/Y CYGNUS ll
   Cygnus classic charters

   Reply to Capt.
• Rick Cass -  December 18, 2015 - 3:13 pm

  I would take the argument a step further, and assert that the trust doctrine that applies to goverment oversight of nvigable waters entails a duty to protect the free right of navigation and anchoring.

  Reply to Rick
5. Gene Fuller -  December 4, 2015 - 2:55 pm

   WOW! This is an amazingly bad proposal. There are plenty of communities in Florida that would love this idea. Unfortunately, they would quickly expand it to include the requirement for crew on board at ALL times.

   Never underestimate the cleverness of public officials who simply don’t want any anchored boats at any time.

   I agree with the basic premise of good seamanship, but this proposal simply will not work in Florida.

   Reply to Gene
• Beverly R Feiges -  December 11, 2015 - 3:56 pm

  Got to agree with not leaving the boat unattended for long periods of time like overnight and beyond. Mooring balls are not an option for us except in a few places where we are assured it will hold our weight, and we feel they are well maintained, but this is almost never.My biggest grievance comes from local boats that take limited anchoring space, like the one south of St. Augustine, clearly marked in all the guide books as a good anchoring spot, only to find it full of local boats on moorings. I think someone who apropriates limited anchoring space is as bad as the homeowner who buys property on the waterway and then wants to remove all the boats with speed limits, and wake limits, and anchoring prohibitions. Yes, we should all have rights to navigate and to anchor, but not indefinitely. Possible exception is, if you own the property, and there is plenty of room for others who might wish to stop temporarily.

  Reply to Beverly
6. Jaye Lunsford -  December 4, 2015 - 9:45 am

   Excellent point — simple and articulately stated. This from a couple of long term liveaboard cruisers and occasional contributors to this site who never leave our boat/home unattended at anchor for more than a couple of hours.

   Reply to Jaye
7. Lisa Keith-Lucas -  December 3, 2015 - 4:04 pm

   Would love to see more mooring fields established! Especially in the keys, where the number of marinas a deep draft boat can enter is small. We are novices, but found mooring fields to be economical and the security of a mooring very reassuring, especially in bad weather.

   Reply to Lisa
8. Dick Mills -  December 3, 2015 - 3:43 pm

   I challenge the blanket statement that mooring is safer than anchoring. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. Moorings can and do drag. They can also fail completely. It depends on the design and maintenance of the mooring system.

   My presumption is that any mooring is untrustworthy unless I know that it is well designed and frequently inspected by divers. An even stricter captain would conclude that no mooring can be trusted until divers under his command have inspected it.

   Reply to Dick

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Comments from Cruisers (1) Add Comment

1. Harold Robinson -  December 4, 2015 - 2:15 pm

   It is requested the new regulations pertaining to the FEC bridge on the New River also be applied to the FEC bridge over the St. Lucie River. The problems there are similar to the ones to be experienced at the New River crossing.

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