Cruising News:
We are proud to announce that Myrtle Beach Yacht Club is now a Certified Clean Marina Destination in the state of South Carolina. MBYC was presented with the Clean Marina Certification and Flag by the South Carolina Marina Association on Saturday, June 11th.
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Myrtle Beach Yacht Club
Captain Ken DeLacy is a fellow live-aboard cruiser who has been working very had for several years in concert with other Sarasota boaters to bring about sensible mooring field/anchorage regulations which both preserve the rights of cruisers to anchor, yet address the problem of derelicts and “live aboard hulks.” In our collective opinion, his idea, outlined below, for Sarasota “Anchoring Permits” goes a long way towards solving these twin concerns. In a nutshell, as you will read, there is no time limit set for anchoring in Sarasota waters, as long as the vessel in question can pass a simple USCG Safety Inspection. This one simple act, will quickly cut out the derelicts and “live aboard hulks.”
We believe this is an idea WELL WORTHY OF CAREFUL CONSIDERATION!
Cruising News:
Being a resident in Sarasota, one of the Pilot Program sites, and a concerned cruiser I made the drive down to Key Largo last Tuesday to attend the Public Workshop meeting. While I noticed about 40 cruisers in attendence only about 5 spoke. I did pitch the idea of Anchroing Permits as an alternitive to buffer zones and time limits to sort of test the waters. Some positive feed back was received by 2 cruisers, 1 condo resident who previously spoke supporting more mooring fields, and the FWC. We are looking for further thoughts on the idea and so I thought I’d paste it below.
Thanks for any input and a special thank you to Claiborne and this network.
Ken DeLacy
Sarasota Anchoring Permit – draft 2
The City of Sarasota will issue 90 day and Annual anchoring permits to all vessel owners who meet the following requirements. (90 day for cruisers and Annual Permits for cruisers/locals)
1. a. Vessel shall obtain a USCG Aux. Vessel Safety Check (VSC) and receive either a “Yes” or “N/A” in order to receive the VSC decal. (Inspects Marine Sanitation Device, life jackets, fire extinguishers, navigation lights, etc.)
b. Vessel shall also be required to receive a “Yes” for Items I – VI under “Recommended and Discussion Items” of the VSC. (Inspects anchors and line, bilge pump, marine radio, 1st aide kit, etc.)
c. Vessel shall be required to navigate under it’s own power to a USCG facility, or other location which still demonstrates vessel’s ability to navigate, for VSC inspection. (USCG Aux. has assured willingness and ability to perform inspections at their dock at Centennial Park. They are volunteers – no cost to City.)
d. Vessel shall display an up to date decal at all times. (Issued by USCG Aux. upon a passing inspection)
2. All anchoring permit holders will be required to use pump-out services. (The VSC will require a functioning Marine Sanitation Device. The City pump-out boat which is currently servicing anchored vessels will report non compliant vessels to Marine Police.)
3. Annual anchoring permit holders will be required to have a licensed diver inspect their anchoring system once their boat is anchored. The permit holder will be responsible for all these associated costs, and the diver must check off the following requirements. (Keeps costs away from City and placed upon the Anchoring Permit holder.)
a. Vessel in location not adversely effecting seagrass, navigation, or another anchored vessel.
b. Appropriate type and size line / chain used with no obvious defects.
c. Appropriate amount of scope deployed.
d. Anti chafe gear in place and in good condition.
e. (1). Two anchor system set approx. 180 degrees apart. (2). Three anchor system set approx. 120 degrees part. (3). Four anchor system set approx. 90 degrees apart. (4). One anchor system not permitted.
4. Applicant responsible for presenting VSC and Diver Inspection to Marine Police in order to receive the Anchoring Permit. Failure to do so within 30 days of arrival may result in violation of City Ordinance 07-4711(x)(x)(x).
Shouldn’t short-term anchoring be permitted for at least a week without requiring a permit? Or will adequate moorings be available for rent? Last I heard, work had been stopped on expanding the very small mooring field.
Will White
The mistake I see in all of this is buying into their argument that a problem exists. The Sarasota proposal does that on steroids.
bosunj
What isn’t clear is what does this mean to someone who might want to anchor for a week. To go through all this rigamarole and expense for a short stay is a non-starter for us. The rules for clearing in and out of Cuba are simpler.
Chris
This could be the way to go as it will help with the derelict vessel problem but needs a little tweaking. the diver inspection would be a problem because if no diver corps have the right permitting they just will not offer the services which will make all the rest obsolete. there should be no third party involved but city and state otherwise there will be price gouging and corruption and we have all had enough of that
Dave C.
Terrible idea! You might as well just outlaw anchoring. Why should those who wish to anchor have to submit to this sort of drastic limit on their freedom? I for one consider having to fill out forms and taking tests to be totally against the spirit, and for that matter, established law of anchoring. It would absolutely guarantee I won’t visit Sarasota by water. I wouldn’t want to waste the time and money. This is a very slippery slope. Once one town gets a law like this on the books, the others with mooring fields will institute similar laws, but with different requirements. Before long we will have to register and submit forms, and of course pay fees to administer and enforce all this, to anchor anywhere. Other problems: a USCG auxiliary inspection requires equipment above what is required by law’“unenforceable, and I suspect someone could have the ticket thrown out of court for this reason. Many of us don’t use holding tanks and don’t require pumpouts’“I have a composting system. Having a licensed diver inspect your anchor = $$. Having someone else determine how I should be anchored is something I will not submit to. I have anchored thousands of times and I know how to anchor. This is obviously just a way to make it so much hassle that it will drive the anchorers away.
John Kettlewell
You HAVE to be kidding! We just spent 10 days anchored off Island Park in Sarasota. The bum boats are mostly gone already, lots of anchoring room, police towed two remaining abandoned boats away while we were there. We really enjoyed our stay, spent lots of money in their stores downtown, restaurants, etc. If this `anchoring permit’ idea goes into effect we will NEVER again stop in Sarasota!!!
I would not be willing to waste my time going into an inspection station even though my vessel meets all of the requirements just so I could anchor for a short time in Sarasota. This `anchor permit’ will deter all cruisers who just want to spend a few days enjoying Sarasota from ever stopping there again. BAD idea, might as well just ban all anchoring in Sarasota waters. I would rather deal with a time limit (even a short one) than to submit to all this bureaucratic nonsense!!
Larry Sherman
Cruisers who want to anchor for less than 90 days don’t and shouldn’t need a permit to limit their freedom to do so.
Non-cruisers, local residents or NOT, who want to STORE their boats at anchor for more than 90 days should be subject to oversight to protect the other cruisers using adjacent waterways from becoming victims of their neglect. An anchoring permit is a reasonable solution if you cannot STORE your boat on land.
If the permit is a device to get derilect boats removed from sight, it will fail because you can comply with all the requirements of the permit and still have an unsightly boat.
David Burnham
Not sure why a two anchor system is preferred over a single good anchor. Two anchors will lead to different swing patterns and will not increase holding as the weakest link in the chain is still the worst anchor. For the transient cruiser it is a major hassle to deal with the `multi’ anchor folks.
Stop increasing regulations and start enforcing the existing rules. Most derelicts do not have current registration or sanitation devices. Enough to violate existing regulations.
S/V Endeavor
I personally think USCG Aux. Vessel Safety Checks are a great idea, and we do one every year as a routine, ongoing safety program. I can support that idea in principle, and I ass/u/me it would also include the equivalent check from the US Power Squadron. One issues is that the stickers are based on a calendar year and expire in December. There needs to be a grace period recognizing that the program is an annual calendar-based program.
I also agree with the idea that there needs to be a short term exclusion. It *is not* reasonable to require a permit for short stays; perhaps less than 14 days.
One poster does raise an interesting point. What happens if one anchors in violation of a permit? Penalty? Fine? I wonder if a permit violation based on requirements that exceed state law and CG regulations would be enforceable? That criteria would just waste everyone’s time and energy, generate enormous dissatisfaction and resentment, and seems like it would be contrary to the spirit test.
Finally, I agree that any ordinance needs to have a clearly defined statement of purpose and objective. If Sarasota’s is about derelict boats and derelict boats are not a problem, then there should be no ordinance.
Jim Healy, aboard Sanctuary
Monk 36 hull 132
Not sure why a two anchor system is preferred over a single good anchor. Two anchors will lead to different swing patterns and will not increase holding as the weakest link in the chain is still the worst anchor. For the transient cruiser it is a major hassle to deal with the `multi’ anchor folks.
Stop increasing regulations and start enforcing the existing rules. Most derelicts do not have current registration or sanitation devices. Enough to violate existing regulations.
S/V Endeavor
I too do not agree with over regulation. Particulerly when one of the city of Sarasotas complaints is the cost of enforcing current laws. However Ken’s proposal is much more cruiser frindly then plans that state no longer then 72 hours on anchor in city waters. That require the use of the proposed Marina Jacks managed mooring field after 72 hours. The city has been chosen as a state pilot program site. There will be regulations put in place. I would perfer the people pushing the mooring field not write them. To add to all of this the city claims that after there last mooring field failure. They are to invested to permenently abandon the plan. At the same time they will not rent showers, laundry facilitys, WiFi, or parking passes to cruisers or resident boat owners. Opening these services to boaters (not on Marina Jack’s docks) who can prove they have a safe navigable vessel. Could recover there loss with out adding to there debt. Aswell as bringing in more of the cruisers who would pay for those on shore luxuries. On the anchoring topic I do not care how you anchor. Just dont hit me and dont swing in that horried 200 ft 1 anchor ark. However when you pull up a ball of lovely Sarasota bay muck. Dont cry when you hit the beach or worse yet me.
Bryan Makepeace
S/V Albatross
What a great report from Captains Greg and Susan concerning one of the North Carolina’s most popular ports of call. Note that this cruising duo note the same shoaling in the Big Foot Slough Channel, on which we reported last week, but they also reflect a later report of dredging here. Follow the link provided below to check out this earlier article.
Even if you don’t plan on visiting Ocracoke this summer, Greg and Susan’s account of the “movie” in Ocracoke, plus the offshore research trip, is well worth a read!
Allegria is spending and extended weekend at the USNPS docks in Ocracoke, NC. This idyllic village on the outer banks is the perfect place to enjoythe summer’s heat with a cooling breeze. The docks were only half full and we got a great spot along with enough power to be comforable with our A/C. Since we are over 62 years old we can use our Golden Passports here to get a 50% discount on the dockage, quite a bargain. The channel entering the Silver Lake anchorage was extremely shoaled with barely 6′ on the green side and seabirds walking around on the red side. Fortunately, there is an USACOE dredge working there right now.
Last night in Ocracoke, there was a feature movie played right behind our boat on a big inflatable screen, of a Disney from 2009 entitled Oceans. It had some of the most spectacular wildlife footage I have ever seen. One scene in Alaska had a pod of grey whales herding bait fish into a ball using air bubbles. Then a dozen full grown grey whale exploded to the surface en-mass from deep down. The slow motion showed their mouths, which sieve out the fish from the water, bloated and distended with their catch as they fell back. Truly do not miss this film, it is unlike anything else I have ever seen. See some clips at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765128/
There is an 85′ NOAA research vessel in residence which is working on a project to locate and photograph wrecks that are offshore from the Battle of the Atlantic, the extended battle between U boats and merchant and US Navy ships that resulted in dozen of sinkings in the early part of WWII. They have a sophisticated free ranging, self propelled side scan sonar device that they release to run track lines along the bottom. When retrieved, the data can be downloaded and reviewed. This is much easier than towing the device behind a ship and running track lines. The National Geographic has a film crew documenting the project so look for a future piece on TV and in print. This is related to the Marine Sanctuary program of NOAA surrounding the Monitor archeological site just offshore.
Greg and Susan Han
USCG 100GT Master, Near Coastal
Key Biscayne, FL
Allegria — Krogen Whaleback #16
Elizabeth City has major improvements for boaters since our last stop a few years ago, thanks to former mayor Atkinson who now owns a trawler. Enjoy Saturday morning farmer’s market at mariner wharf May – October. Farm Fresh market, a great new grocery store, picks boaters up at the wharf with a phone call. We enjoyed First Friday gallery walk and new art center downtown. The new library and Albermarle museum exhibits are terrific. We highly recommend Elizabeth City to anyone cruising the area.
Capt. Wendy Young aboard “Blue Crab” 32′ Island Gypsy, Punta Gorda FL
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of the Elizabeth City Waterfront
Cruising News:
While cruising the Staniel and Sampons Cays in Dec. Our dog Andale came down with Lyme disease. We heard reports at Long Is. and Gearge Town and later were told by June the weather lady her friend’s dog died. Well we turned and got back to the states and dog in for test. Never did we find a tick, I checked paws and pads, ears and belly. She swims daily,but on the beach she got into some briar patch that drew blood. Maybe that is the link, I just don’t know. Test confirmed Lyme and medications saved her. I suggest having the meds on board and watch for signs. Good Luck and beware for your pets sake.
Kat Luchene
The AICW/Jekyll Creek Problem Stretch has had shoaling for some time now with reports of depths below 5ft at low tide. Mid to high tide passage is recommended.
I followed my usual path thru Jekyll but found less water than on previous trips with as little as 5′ mlw in spots. Either I messed up on that run or shoaling got worst over winter. I’ll keep playing the tides’¦
Captain Pascal
We traveled this stretch on 4/27/11 at 1 hr.before low tide mid channel and saw no less then 7′. Follow the range markers listed as RW on the charts around the curve past Jekyl Wharf Marina.
Capts.Steve & Di Koch
May 2011: came thru northbound and 7′ MLW was the lowest reading i found mostly near G19 and along the range. I passed about 150′ off G19 then turned right on the range. Stayed on the range till past R16 (passed about 75′ away).
No depth issue between the bridge and the wharf. You just have to take it slow and found the best water as the `channel’ is very shallow. On a previous run in April, I did find some 5′ spots around G19 not far from where i passed on this trip.
Pascal aboard MY Charmer, 70′ 6+ draft
May 28, 2011. Northbound on a 50′ trawler with 5 foot draft. Passed marker 20A at 4:56 pm. Passed marker 10 at 5:19 pm
20A depth 14.1 feet
20 depth 13.3
19 depth 13.4
17 depth 13.7
16 depth 14.1
13 depth 14.5
11 depth 17.6
10 depth 22.3
I hope this is useful.
Darrel Peters Aboard `Present Moment’
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For Jekyll Creek
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
It is almost universally acknowledged that the Little Mud River section of the AICW, some 21 statute miles north of Brunswick, Georgia, is the single worst stretch of the “ditch” between Norfolk, VA and Miami, Florida. Well, Captains Chuck and Susan’s observations below certainly tend to bear out that theory.
As you may recall from other recent postings here on the Net, Captain Chuck Baier and Captain Susan Landry are the former general manager and editor, respectively, of Waterway Guide. They are now cruising south on the AICW on their way to a new home in Fort Myers, Florida. Chuck and Susan are being kind enough to forward very detailed reports to the Cruisers’ Net about concerns they encounter, particularly AICW Problem Stretches.
With this dynamic duo’s vast cruising experience, we can take their observations below as gospel. And, as you will see, just give up on the idea of traversing Little Mud River at anything but high tide.
Claiborne,
We transited the Little Mud River on Tuesday 5/17/2011 and we thought your readers would be interested in what we found. I hope they also appreciate us transiting all of the problem areas on the ICW at or near low tide so we could get accurate depth readings. We transited the Little Mud at 2 hours before low tide. Based on this the following depths would be at low tide. At Red “192” depth of 5 feet. At Crooked Creek, depth of 4 1/2 feet. Approaching Green “193” 4 feet, then 3 feet very near “193”. Just past Green “193” 3 1/2 feet. At Red “194” 3 1/2 feet and just past Red “194” 3 feet. From Red “194” to the turn onto the Altamaha is all about 4 feet. Fortunately there were no other fools except us transiting at this low of a tide. We hope this will help others STAY AWAY at anything less than 2 to 3 extra feet of tides. We will send more as we find it.
Chuck and Susan
We have transited this area with our Tayana 37, `Dream Seeker’, twice and had no problems. Of course it was at 1/2 tide rising through 1/2 tide falling. With the tidal range in GA you can carry 6′ but you have to know your onions as they say.
Kevin McPadden
We transited the Little Mud River on May 4, 2011 about 1/2 hour before low, northbound. The mud banks extending into the river were visible on both sides. While we didn’t risk going aground to sound each marker, we stayed in the middle between the visable mud sides. We draw four feet and were obviously dragging through the mud a couple of times based on how the steering responded. Otherwise we saw no less than 4.5 feet and generally 5 feet plus on the sounder.
Again, this was in mid-visible water, not necessasarily mid channel, although our course always honored the daymarks. The depths reported by the sounder might not have been accurate because of the soupy mud bottom.
Bob McLeran and Judy Young
I really appreciate all the info on the ICW. I will be making the trip to Tampa next week from Washington DC. Thanks again.
Safe Seas,
Captain Lisa Alexander
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For Little Mud River
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To This AICW Problem Stretch
Captain Charmaine’s article below is a follow-up to her earlier story here on the Cruisers’ Net, entitled, “Channel Key Pass ‘“ Navigational Conundrum (Florida Keys Inside Route, Statute Mile 1179.5).” If you have not yet red this article, please do so by following this link (http://www.CrusiersNet.net/channel-key-pass-navigational-conundrum-florida-keys-inside-route-statute-mile-1179-5) BEFORE delving into Charmaine’s story below. This account will be far more meaningful once the background has passed before your eyes.
May 18, 2011
Channel Key Pass (ICW through Channel Key Banks) – Navigational Conundrum Resolved
N 24 48.768 W 80 54.708 (Green #5 & #7 and Red #8)
by Charmaine Smith Ladd
The navigational conundrum posed in my article of May 11th has been resolved. Love when that happens! LOL
To quickly refresh your memory, see the illustration below. This is in the waters of Florida Bay, which average 7-9 feet. While traversing the Bay between Channel Five and the Seven Mile Bridge, we aboard September Sea came across what seemed to be an unusual navigational aid configuration along the ICW at Channel Key Pass:
Channel Key Pass (ICW through Channel Key Banks) N 24 48.768 W 80 54.708 (Green markers #5 & #7 and Red marker #8)
It seemed as per the chart, going outside Red marker #8 would keep my 5’8 draft in consistently deeper water and away from the shoals. I wondered why the marked channel was so narrow, seemed to come so very close to the southern shoal of Channel Key Bank, and was in a slight “S” configuration. That’s a lot more to think about than merely opting to go outside Red Marker #8 and be in what the chart shows as 7 ft. waters. Then I thought about the possibility of navigating this area at night or in foul weather! I had to know more about this area before either of those scenarios ever became a reality. Therefore, being daytime, I decided to follow the marked channel. With good daylight it was easier to see the shoals. Yet still, when passing through the marked channel, my keel was in only inches of water. That’s when I began to doubt whether I had made the correct decision.
Since that time, I have researched to view satellite images of the area (seen side-by-side below). The images show distinctly lighter colored areas outside Red marker #8. This is an obvious indication of inconsistent depths. The black and white image on the left reflects a yellow ring I have drawn around the questionable depth area. The Google Earth image on the right, being in color, does not show that contrast as clearly. The yellow pins I’ve drawn flank the northern and southern boundaries of Channel Key Pass per NOAA charts. It is apparent the yellow ringed area lies within those boundaries.
Satellite Image Comparisons of Channel Key Pass
In the future, I will take the marked channel through Channel Key Banks. It is my belief that while navigating the “S” curve, I allowed the stern to swing a bit off the centerline. This would explain why my depth sounder went off and showed only inches of water. I was a bit too close to the shoal of Green Marker #7. When navigating this Pass, be sure to stay in the center of the passage. It is quite narrow and confusing, but it is totally accurate. The chart does show that a bit of shoal overlaps the Pass. Stay a bit more north when passing Green Marker #7 and you’ll be just fine.
Most boats in Florida Bay do not have the worries about depth as we who draw 5’8 or more. The other sailboat observed that day which decided to pass to the North of the marked Channel (outside of Red Marker #8) was more than likely as confused as we were. His choice was probably decided as per the chart showing enough depth within that course. His thinking was to not risk any dealings to the shoal off Green Marker #7. But now that I have seen the satellite images, it is clear that is not the safest course to take. The satellite images also reveal the logic behind the configuration of the Channel Key Pass markers.
My next trip there will include going out in the dinghy and taking some depth soundings of the yellow ringed area with a handheld sonar. Even though the satellite images indicate some shoaling there (enough at this point to avoid the area with my 5’8 draft); this writer’s curious nature would love to know what truly lies beneath!
The NOAA satellite image used here was obtained from a fellow cruiser who has a program on his chartplotter which allows him to overlay such images. Google Earth images were easily obtained by downloading the resources directly from Google Earth. However, the side-by-side comparison shows that the contrast images on Google Earth are not always clear enough to be used for detecting navigational hazards at sea. It is evident that in this case, the NOAA satellite image most clearly reveals the answer to what once was the Channel Key Pass navigational conundrum.
Cruisers helping Cruisers = Conundrum Resolved!
Charmaine Smith Ladd
SSECN Special Correspondent, Florida Keys
“Bringing you the low down from down low!”
www.SeptemberSea.com
Our good friends at Boat/US have asked the Salty Southeast Cruisers’ Net to help get the word out that they have just released an updated statement of Florida Anchoring Right, which are specifically designed for the use of cruisers, while they are underway. Boat/US has rendered the Cruising Community a GREAT service by formulating this document. May we humbly suggest that one and all make as much use of it as possible!
Cruisers’ Net Bridge Directory has this bridge listed as 62ft and care needs to be taken at high tide as Almost Heaven relates below. The Broadway Bridge (E International Speedway Blvd) crosses the ICW at Statute Mile 830.5, south-southeast of unlighted daybeacons #33 and #34.
This Bridge is 62′! on a high tide we would not clear this bridge.(63.5 + Antennas) The Markers on the bridge clearly showed 63′ with the tide down 1 foot. Please consider the tide range when passing under the Broadway Bridge. The chart is INCORRECT as it shows 65′.
Almost Heaven
This bridge needs a proper clearance board. ie: measurement. I crept under this spring with the board reading 63. My antenna usually hits at a 64 reading. Antenna did not hit.
Skipper Paul Eckenroth
Our mast height is also 63.5′ + antennas, we passed under this bridge @ 8pm Sunday May 13th, 2012. The Bridge clearance guage showed 62′ but as we had previously cleared this bridge in the fall we gave it a very slow go weaving between the nav light. As far as we could tell not even our antenna touched (unlinke many other bridges on the AICW) which means there is at least 66+’ in the middle of the span.
Andrew
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To A “Navigation Alert” Position at Broadway Bridge
The clearance boards indicate MINIMUM height. Run down the middle of the span and you add at least 1 1/2 feet. We confirmed this on October 11, 2013. After waiting seven hours to pass under using the range board, going under the center our ant. did not even touch.
Another GREAT article by our very special Florida Keys correspondent, Captain Charmaine Smith Ladd. And, in this missive, Captain Charmaine is asking for input from fellow Florida Keys Cruisers. Please read on, and if you have any knowledge of the channel across Channel Key Pass, please click the “Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, and share your information.
May 11, 2011
Channel Key Pass (ICW through Channel Key Banks) – Navigational Conundrum
N 24 48.768 W 80 54.708 (Green #5 & #7 and Red #8)
by Charmaine Smith Ladd
The weather in the Keys has been in the high 80s. Not a bad thing when there is wind to blow off the waters and keep one comfortable while aboard. A few weeks ago, looking at the extended forecast it became apparent the wind would be saying goodbye for a while. That’s the time when flags which otherwise fly proudly become as limp as last week’s wilted flowers. Hardly a breath of wind to lift anything. Marinas and Harbors can get quite stifling during such times, unless one has the option and decides to run air conditioning.
September Sea has that option. But instead of closing the boat up and turning on the central air, we find it much more adventurous to leave the confines of marinas and Harbors and head offshore in search of cooler days and nights. Most probably wouldn’t think it…but it’s a great time to take off for adventure even when the seas are calm and the breeze is gone.
---- Calm Seas and No Breeze (just outside Boot Key Harbor in Atlantic)
Florida Bay was our choice this time, as it would be calmer waters for anchoring in the event any weather happened to surface. Gorgeous waters say hello to coolness! There seems to always be air out here in the Bay, even if it means going five to ten or more miles offshore. It is worth it. Not only for cooling off, but how one can cool off is what is so wonderful about getting away: the farther one goes the more one gains with total privacy, solitude, and no irritations. LOL
We’ve been out and about for over three weeks and loving it. When we departed Boot Key Harbor (Marathon), we took the Atlantic side and sailed on the last day of wind before the calm…and it was a glorious sail. There’s nothing quite like the sound of movement along the water and not spending a dime on fuel. It’s as Green as it gets! At Channel Five we crossed over into Florida Bay. Glorious backwater areas!
We recently had to pick up some supplies so we headed back towards Marathon. We normally don’t take the Bayside route as we draw 5’8. The waters of Florida Bay average 7-9 feet, mostly 7-8 this far inshore, whereas traversing the Atlantic one doesn’t have to constantly watch the depth sounder. But we decided to do it, as it was new territory for us between Channel Five and Seven Mile Bridge, via the Bay. When charting our course, we came across an unusual navigational aid configuration along the ICW at Channel Key Pass:
Channel Key Pass (ICW through Channel Key Banks) N 24 48.768 W 80 54.708 (Green markers #5 & #7 and Red marker #8)
Look at the included chartlet as if your boat draws 5’8. All depths on the chart are optimal, as the tide does not fluctuate feet but only inches in Florida Bay. How would you have plotted your course in this scenario? I’d like to get some of your comments as this is an ICW Route and many of you have probably been here. I’m sure there are other areas along the ICW that are just as confusing. But this one really makes little sense to me.
What do you make of it and how would you have handled it? You can see my track (in black) through the Pass (channel markers) but after doing so and finding my keel within a very few inches of touching bottom; in hindsight perhaps I should have gone with my first inclination: going outside the red marker and navigating the 7 ft. waters to its starboard. But then again, imagine making this choice at night. That would be scary to come up to two lit channel markers and decide to go around them instead of between them!
This just goes to show how one must be alert at all times. Even after plotting my course, I had no idea what those markers would actually look like when approached. The view from the water actually looked more confusing than the chart… as the chart is correct and the markers are exactly where indicated. The markers are not directly across from each other but create more of an “S” curve as you pass through. Navigating the “S” curve brought September Sea precariously close to the shoal on port (Green #7). Perhaps I should have gone outside Red #8, as the chart shows the water consistently deeper there. I did watch a sailboat do just that about an hour later, long after we had passed through.
There must be some history of these channel markers. Perhaps it was for fishing boats to easily navigate between the two shoals. But if that were the case, then why such a narrow opening and “S” curve rather than moving the red marker closer to the northernmost shoal and creating a much wider and easier to navigate passage? Anyone out there have an idea of why this is set up in such a confusing manner? This writer would love to read what you think.
In the meantime, we aboard September Sea will be cool and comfy offshore. Of course I had to time this article while in internet range, so at this moment we are much much closer to shore than we prefer (well, I did need to get those supplies too, so it’s all good). It is so different near shore…very, very warm day! As soon as I click “Send” we’ll weigh anchor and be underway offshore again. Coolness, here we come!
Charmaine Smith Ladd
SSECN Special Correspondent, Florida Keys
“Bringing you the low down from down low!”
http://www.SeptemberSea.com
We have been through Channel Key Pass a number of times, most recently about a week ago. I agree that the position of the marks looks pretty strange, but we always follow them, and we have not seen anything less than about 6.5 feet.
Unless I have specific knowledge I always follow the marks rather than the chart or the purple line. The soundings were taken many years ago and rarely get updated. The marks may have been moved since the chart was created.
Our boat needs somewhere between 5.2 and 5.4 feet to avoid fraternizing with the bottom, depending on how much water, fuel, and beer are on board. We made it from Marathon to Miami and back within the last few weeks. Channel Key Pass was one of the easy places for us. The skinniest water was found in two places. The worst was near Isla Morada, between marks 80 and 86. We could not find anything more than about 5.6 feet, even though the tide was up and the wind was light. The other place was at mark 50, just north of Grouper Creek. We were not much more than a boat length from the red mark when the alarm suddenly went off. A quick jog even closer to the mark quickly restored about 9 feet of water. We have been through there before without incident. I don’t know if there is shoaling or if we were simply a few feet closer to the existing shallows.
Gene Fuller
Punta Gorda
Yorkshire Rose, Catalina 42
I came through there in August 1992, 2 days after Andrew had swept through Everglade City and pounded me on Marco Island. That leg of my journey, I traveled from Marco Island headed for “someplace” in the keys. As I approached this challenging bit of navigation on the chart, I decided to lower my sails and approach it under power for greater control. Our big difference is that my 25′ Capri only had a 4 foot draft. I must admit, I was so intent upon avoiding the reef (with concern about possible unexpected current shifts), I don’t recall ever checking the depth. After I emerged and approached the Channel 5 Bridge, a coin toss decided whether to head to Key Largo or to Key West. Key West won, but I actually lived at Faro Blanco in Marathon for one year. Considering the damage a reef can do to your boat and vice versus, I would always recommend taking it slow and staying within the markers as close to the middle as possible.
First of all, let’s locate the anchorage where the series of events described below is centered. Edgewater Lake is accessed via a canal which cuts off the northern shores of upper Charlotte Harbor/lower Peace River, just across the way from the Punta Gorda waterfront. These waters are indeed recommended as an anchorage in both my “Cruising Guide to Western Florida” and here on the Cruisers’ Net.
Secondly, if we believe Captain Ritchie’s assertion below that they “sail and/or maintain multiple times per week” their vessel, clearly this craft is NOT a derelict or a “live aboard hulk.”
So, this is pretty clearly a case where the adjacent land owners simply do not want to see anchored vessels when they go out into their back yards. IN MY OPINION, THIS IS PRECISELY THE SORT OF INSTANCE THE 2009 FLORIDA STATE ANCHORING LAW WAS MEANT TO ADDRESS. According to this law, as most of you already know, LOCAL MUNICIPAL AND COUNTY AUTHORITIES HAVE NO RIGHT TO DENY ANCHORAGE ON THESE OR ANY OTHER WATERS TO ANY CRAFT (unless it is abandoned or a “live aboard hulk,” which, to be repetitive, this vessel is not).
It’s just this sort of instance which paints all of Florida in a bad light, and why when I talk to cruising groups in the Carolinas, Georgia or the non-Floridian Gulf coast, generally the second or third query in my question and answer sessions goes something like, “Should we take our boats to Florida?”
But, all of Florida is NOT like this. Places like Fort Myers Beach could not be more welcoming to the cruising community, and really this positive attitude towards cruisers is the rule, not the exception. However, let an incident like the Volusia County Sheriff’s office boardings of last fall happen, or what is described below, and mariners begin to have very real, very legitimate questions about whether they should avoid Floridian waters entirely.
Well, that’s today’s unsolicited editorial. Read on and discover what prompted this stream of consciousness.
On Tuesday, May 10, 2011, I wrote this letter to a Florida attorney who is interested in violations of Florida’s anchoring laws by local municipalities, in this case, Charlotte County.
May 10, 2011
Ahoy! My name is Rick Ritchie. I am a Michigan Resident staying at my mother’s house in Port Charlotte, Florida. My family and I have a 37 Irwin sailboat (registered in FL) which we sail and/or maintain multiple times per week. We anchor in Edgewater Lake, a small cove just off of North Charlotte Harbor, which is listed as an anchorage in Claiborne Young’s Cruisers’ Guide and on Cruisers.net (an online cruising guide), also designated as an anchorage on Florida’s FWC nautical chart (the one that is published for FWC for boaters). It is designated anchorage number 7 on FWC chart SGEB-61. Even the two unhappy local lake-shore landowners concede that it is an anchorage. Of course, as you know, even if it were not designated, as such, anchoring there would still be legal because it is a navigable part of Charlotte Harbor, Florida. The “anchorage” designation by FWC is just a redundancy.
We (my family and I) have been “talked to” by the Charlotte County sheriff’s office, twice, and told to move our boat. They have told us that this navigable lake is not an anchorage. In both instances I was able to demonstrate to the officer that my boat was (and is) legally anchored. I did this by showing them the aforementioned FWC nautical chart and the reference in the cruiser’s guide. The last deputy sheriff’s parting words were that he is NOT telling us we have to move it (even though that is exactly what he told us to do at the beginning of the dialog), but that there is a time limit on the anchoring of boats in Charlotte county. My wife asked him. “what is the time limit?” and he said that he didn’t know. Then he left.
Also, we were asked to attend a meeting of the neighborhood association (actually, just two homeowner couples showed up) to discuss my boat. The short version of the meeting is that they don’t like to look at boats anchored in “their water.” It was, actually, a gripe session where my wife and I politely listened and responded to their questions and managed to avoid rising to their baited and barbed comments and insults. One of them even offhandedly threatened us. Of course his wife said that he was not serious. (our anchor line has been cut twice while anchored there, quite probably by someone who lives nearby. We now have all chain.)
Before you jump to the wrong conclusion, we have friendly relationships with many of the homeowners around the lake, even getting invited to use a homeowners dock for our dinghy, and another homeowner is smitten with our children and invites us into their home for beverages. So only two homeowners, it seems, are calling the sheriff and complaining. Unfortunately, the Sheriff’s office seems to dance to their tune.
One more thing (promise): According to one of our several friends who lives on that anchorage’s shore, the sheriff’s boat has been visiting our boat on a regular basis (lately, almost daily). Today, it seems, they even tied onto it. I don’t know if they boarded it, or not. We were at my mother’s house a few miles away, at the time. That’s where we usually are if we aren’t on the water.
This is all for your information. If you have any advise or questions please feel free to email me.
Sincerely,
Rick Ritchie
More on this Charlotte Harbor Anchoring Hassle:
May 15, 2011
First, let me emphasize this: Deputy Katsarelas was polite during the entire phone conversation– even when I told him that he was wrong about the anchoring law. If he was unhappy about it, I couldn’t tell. He continued to be polite and professional.
Second, I understand that this letter may find its way to the Sheriff’s office. For that reason I have been careful to be accurate in this testimony and faithful in my recreation of the events and
quotations. Other than my speculations, which I have identified as such, this is as accurate as I can make it.
Read on:
My boat was just tagged as an “At-Risk of becoming derelict” vessel by Deputy Sheriff Katsarelas of the Charlotte County Sheriff Department. When I spoke with him on the phone, today, he said that the citation was based on another complaint by an Edgewater Lake homeowner. He also stated that he (Katsarelas) has never seen anybody aboard my vessel. I explained that I have been on-board my boat weekly, usually more than once per week. I also informed him that some friendly homeowners on the lake could verify this.
[Maybe he hasn’t seen me aboard my boat because, until last week, he only patrols Edgewater Lake for a few minutes out of every month… just a guess]
Specifically, the tag that he left on my boat states that my vessel has been identified as being “at risk of becoming a derelict vessel.” The reason stated on the tag is that my vessel is “neglected, improperly maintained, or is not able to be used for navigation.”
This is untrue. As I stated in the letter to ATTY Dickerson, which you posted on Cruisersnet, my wife and I visit my boat multiple times per week to maintain and/or sail her.
We don’t always get to sail her, but we ALWAYS are able to get out there and take care of her, start the engine, air it out, install a redundant bilge-pump, add another battery, replace
hoses, replace anchor line with chain, etc..
Deputy Katsarelas suggested that I moor my boat at my house instead of anchoring on the lake.
After I explained to the Deputy that I was within my rights to anchor there, and cited the Florida statute, he informed me that the County has more strict anchoring regulations.
And I quote from Deputy Katsarelas of the Charlotte County Sheriff’s Department: during today’s phone conversation:
“The County has more binding regulations than the State.”
“The county has the right to add to the State regulations.”
“[County regulations] …are in-addition to State regulations”
When I informed him that he was in error, I gave him the specific statute (327.60) which specifically states that local municipalities are prohibited from enacting , continuing in effect, or enforcing any ordinance or regulation regulating the anchoring of vessels other than live-aboards. Deputy Katsarelas then stated that he was not current on the new anchoring laws.
Again, a quote from Deputy Katsarelas:
“I’m not up on the new anchoring laws.”
So I offered to give him a copy of the new regulations and a copy of Boat US’s summary of the new law. He said that I could do that if I wanted to.
So now my boat is listed in the new State-wide database of Derilict vessels. I wonder if this might be a prelude to an accusation of vessel abandonment? Swell!!!
I guess I will send him a copy of the statute and a copy of Boat U.S.’s summary of the anchoring laws. I suspect that it won’t help, though. Maybe it’s just because a few of them make numerous complaints, but the unhappy Edgewater Lake homeowners seem to have some sort of special influence over the sheriff’s office. I speculate that I will now be hounded by the sheriff’s office.
It would be cool if a more official type person would send the statute and a legal opinion of it to Deputy Katsarelas and the Sheriff’s Department of Charlotte County — perhaps a member of
the BAR.
I wonder what the sheriff dept. has in store for me? Boardings? Safety Inspections? Home visitations? Towing my vessel?
I wonder what the unhappy homeowners have in store for me: More anchor rode cuttings (I now have chain so it’ll have to be with bolt cutters, this time)?
Anyway, Edgewater Lake, designated as an anchorage in the cruisers guides and FWC charts (not that it needs to be), is a little less than friendly.
P.S. In the interest of fairness and completeness, the tag that was left on my boat also stated thatthe registration numbers are not in contrast with the hull color. To that, I have to admit that Deputy
Katsarelas may have a point. I informed him that I will the numbers from black to white and he said that would be acceptable.
Again, this is for your information. I hope that someone out there can make good use of it.
Rick Ritchie
This situation is truly unfortunate and also an opportunity. Although, I’™m not a lawyer I believe it is illegal for even the police to board your boat without your invitation. I would speak to your shore side friends about setting up a video surveillance(VS). Post the boat with a sign, and file charges after the violation. At the very least, you might make it known that there is VS on your boat. Harassment of this type is unacceptable and the police should be investigating who cut you rode.
Marc Sexton
Now, here is a well-thought note that demands some serious consideration. Read Captain Kewley’s comments first, and then peruse my editorial remarks afterward:
Mr Ritchie,
I would like to offer some thought to clarify a couple of points that you make in your post.I believe that the sea floor in Edgewater Lake is owned by Charlotte County since the lake like the waterways are not natural bodies of water, indicating why the County Sheriff would be involved in policing anchored boats there. This also brings into question whether the rules on anchoring in Florida State waters apply.
I think the crux of the issue lies with the point at which an untended boat becomes a hazard or derelict. I do not believe that the residents around Edgewater Lake object to overnight or short-term anchoring since I visit the location fairly frequently. However you use the anchorage as a long-term storage facility for your Irwin while staying with relatives miles away and apparently have done so periodically for a couple of years. Barnacles growing up your anchor rode in the past have indicated infrequent movement of your boat.
As the 2011 Hurricane season approaches and I wonder if the residents surrounding Edgewater Lake should feel reassured that your liability coverage will be adequate to compensate them should your boat’™s chain anchor rode not withstand storm conditions.I think that it is a matter of reasonable consideration for others, and storing your boat for free, anchored near someone’™s backyard for months at a time certainly is inconsiderate at best.
Clifford Kewley
Captain Kewley raises at least three interesting questions in his note above. First, there is matter of whether Florida anchoring law applies to bottomland that is the result of man-made action, e. g. dredging. I have heard some say yes and some say no. However, I do clearly recall in my political science classes, that “Federal law supercedes state law, and state law supercedes local and county statutes.” Given that truism, one must conclude that there is at least a distinct possibility that the 2009 Florida state anchoring law applies even to bottom lands that are the result of dredging. For a more definitive answer, we must defer to the lawyers among us. If anyone practicing the legal profession would like to weigh in, and please do so, then click the “Comment on This Posting/Marina/Anchorage/Bridge” link below, and share your information.
Secondly, there is the matter of how long should a well maintained, non-abandoned vessel that is in compliance with all safely and MSD regulations, be allowed to anchor in one place. In my 2010 editorial entitled, “Whence Come the Anchorage Regulations,” (/florida-anchoring-editorial-1-whence-come-the-anchorage-regulations), I wondered out loud:
“Finally, that leaves the case of what I will call `responsible liveaboards,’ boat owners who religiously come to the dock (or use a `honey boat’) to have their holding tanks pumped, don’™t throw trash overboard, don’™t make loud noise, don’™t’™ trespass, and keep their vessels attractive and well secured. How long should a mariner of this ilk be allowed to anchor his or her vessel in the same spot?”
I don’t have an answer for this instance to this day. Anyone else????
And, finally, there is the question of damage caused by anchored vessels during a violent storm or a hurricane. A legitimate concern to be sure, but in the case of Captain Ritchie, since he is clearly in close contact with his vessel, there should be ample time for him to move his craft before a hurricane hits. Thus, I tend to think this question is a non-issue!
Some may question whether or not someone `should’ anchor a boat for long term storage like this, but it is crystal clear that it is perfectly legal to do so according to Florida and Federal statute. The issues about a potential for hurricane damage and being `untended’ are bogus’“if this was the standard throughout Florida nobody could anchor or tie up anyplace for more than a few days. The sheriff is just hunting for something, anything to allow him to make this boater move along.
John Kettlewell
Dear Captain Young
Thanks for stimulating a very interesting discussion and spotlighting the issue of anchoring rights. Kinda brings to mind the Paul Simon lyric in discussing apartment living,”one man’s ceiling is another man’s floor”.
Your essay/editorial “whence come the Anchorage Regulations” and your message discusses responsible live-aboards. In the case of Mr Ritchie, substitute the term responsible long-term storage behind someone else’s home.
I do not know the legalities of whether ownership of the sea floor determines the applicable regulation of anchoring and, hopefully some “sea lawyers will opine on the issue.
Clif Kewley
Dear Clifford Kewley,
With all due respect, you seem to be confusing my boat with another one that was, in fact, abandoned on the lake and was finally removed a few months ago (by whom, I have no idea). It was a boat called the `Wild Hare’ and it did, indeed, have a barnacle-ball the size of a basketball on the anchor rode. It also had a missing companionway hatch so it was completely exposed to the elements. Its hull had a barnacle-covering that made it resemple an oyster farm. The `Wild Hare’ was there when I first discovered Edgewater Lake a year ago. My friends on the lake have told me that `Wild Hare’ had been there for 2 years. This, however, is NOT my boat. My anchor rode has NEVER had a barnacle ball. Secondly, I have owned my boat for only 12 months, four of which I kept her at a dock on the Ackerman waterway (e.g. from November 2010 to February 2011), and several other weeks I kept her on the harbor, next to another anchored cruiser (Jim). So your assertion that I have been storing it on Edgewater Lake for `years’ is mistaken. I maintain my boat, regularly, including the achor rigging, which I have had to replace’¦ thrice’¦ in the last year. More importantly, I SAIL MY BOAT! True, it is on the lake much more often than it is under sail, still I get to sail her reasonably often.
So, I am now keeping a log of my visits to my boat. I don’™t suppose it will make any difference to the disgruntled landowners, but I am recording what I do during each visit. And thanks to the local police, I will now have their official verification that I was on my boat to find the tag that they left, and was there on another occasion to replace the reg. numbers with more contrasting colored ones. So between the police and the friendly landowners I should easily be able to substantiate my claim of twice per week.
So, my question to you is (this is a serious question, I have no ill-will loaded up here because I believe it was an honest mistake): How long should I stay away from Edgewater lake between anchorings; And, how long should I be able to anchor my boat there, each time?
Please accept my apology for anything in this letter that seems less than polite. I find that the brevity of email sometimes impersonates rudeness. I do not mean to sound harsh or rude, especially to a fellow sailor.
Yours sincerely,
Rick Ritchie
Mr. Ritchie,
I am not sure of your legal right to anchor/wet store your vessel in Edgewater Lake for long periods of time. So to move the discussion along and avoid the on-line `huffing and puffing’ about anchoring rights in Florida, lets change the scenario.
Lets say that you worked long hours for many years and sacrificed to save money to enable you and your family to enjoy your favorite locale and lifestyle. A beautiful mountain community where you paid extra for a building lot to build your home with an unimpeeded view of the mountains. Nice!
Now lets assume that a local mountain view lover from the next town decided to situate and store his motorhome on the right of way just left of your center view of the mountains, obstructing, oh maybe 10% of your view, and he WAS legally able to do so.
Now my thought on this is that the lot owner, you, would probably not mind or be too upset if the visitor stayed for a weekend, or maybe a week but’¦.
If it is only about what is legal then we are in big trouble as a society.
Clif Kewley
Click Here To Open A Chart View Window, Zoomed To the Location of Edgewater Lake
So whatever became of Captain Ritchie's Irwin 37 on Edgewater Lake? We were never forced to leave Edgewater Lake, although we had to defend our rights many times while we remained. My family got tired of the hassles, vandalism, police visits, and neighborhood meetings, so we sold our boat. Making a point, is one thing, but sticking around to "count coup" is quite another, and decidedly impolite. Since the draft of our Irwin 37 was 4 feet, she was too deep for the canal behind our house. So we parted ways with her…. and got smaller. Sure, we had to sacrifice the second head and second shower. But who really needs two showers, two heads and two sinks on a sailboat? We purchased an Irwin 10/4, which has the interior of a 30 footer, but is only 26 feet with a swing-keel draft of 2.75 feet. She has just the one head/shower, but still has two sinks. More importantly, we no-longer hear from those two constant complainers on Edgewater Lake. Our boat is right behind our house at our own dock. So, stay on Edgewater Lake in a storm, but there is no shore access and a couple of the locals will soon tire of your existence. [Please note: As I have mentioned before, most of the local homeowners around the lake were very friendly, and even helpful. A few of them should be given an award for their generous courtesy .]
There is a simple solution, just look for a canal front home without a boat at their dock and see if they will rent you the dock! Or look on craigslist, I believe there are several available right now
That is a good point, and only slightly misses the mark. You see, Edgewater Lake has been an anchorage… a Florida FWC designated anchorage, for a long. long time. So in light of this, here is a slightly better analogy. Suppose you spent your hard-earned retirement savings on a Florida home right next to a beautiful campground. One with an unpolluted, peaceful and rustic scenery that would inspire an artist to weep. Then suddenly, in April, some campers and motor homes start parking within your cherished and serene view. Some, of course, only park for a night or two. But others stay for the season. A few even leave their caravans behind and only visit on weekends. Of course this is all within the State legal limits of the camper owner, and the campground. Here is the question: Does the offended home-owner who lost his peaceful view have a legitimate and valid case against the camper owner?
This is a interesting article but with no conclusion. I just lost my docking spot on the next street over to edge water lake. So I thought it was a good time to plan on taking the 38 ft Irwin out of the water to paint the bottom but need to wait a week or two. Thought I might leave it anchored at edge water lake until then. Question is can I without being harassed? I am planning on purchasing a home in this area in the next two months but waiting for the sale of my currant home in Port Charlotte. Also what other options are there?
Due to a combination of shoaling and incorrect depiction of aids to navigation on some older editions of chart 11553, the intersection of the AICW and the northern mouth of Alligator River has gained the reputation of being currently the worst AICW problem stretch on the Tar Heel coastline. Fortunately, below Captains Chuck and George give good advice on how to successfully navigate these troubled waters, and the second posting below notes the replacement of destroyed marker #7, reported earlier here on the Cruisers’ Net, with a temporary, unlighted can buoy. The USCG has thankfully added a red nun buoy marker #8A and if you follow the advice below, you should have no problem, but cross your fingers and toes anyway.
Claiborne,
Beach House transited the mouth of the Alligator River yesterday and here is what we found. On the red side between R `6’³ and `8’³, even near the markers we had 9 feet. The green side is deeper with 12 feet holding about 75 feet off G `7’³ and going to G `9’³, again holding off about 75 feet. The marker for G `9’³ has been replaced and is in fine condition. The Coast Guard has placed a red nun, R `8A’ where everyone has cut through and run aground. So if the markers are followed correctly there is no reason for anyone to run aground. We will keep you posted on any further developments. From Norfolk to Adams Creek we have found nothing but good depths. We are heading south.
Chuck
Cruising News:
Hi guys…was at the Alligator River Marina earlier this week and there is a new nun buoy 8a that has been placed in the ICW channel just south of daymarker #8. Heading north this should be left to port but there is good water right next to the marker in the channel. I expect it is there to keep people off the shoal to the west. You may want to follow up with the CG on this…but it was there on 5/15! All best…
Capt. George Barr
We passed northbound through this North Alligator River section discussed here this morning ‘“ May 1. It is important for cruisers to know that Flashing Green `7’³ has been destroyed and has been replaced by the CG with an unlighted small Green can. This `7’³ Green can is hard to see as you approach from the South, but is positioned exactly as the old light since about 2′ of the old pole is above the water next to it. All the advice here about getting near Green `9’³ and running to Green `7’³ and keeping well off of Red `8’³ is right on the money. We saw 11 feet or more at all times. We heard a motor cruiser who said he ran the Magenta Line report 3’ and a near grounding.
Click Here To View the Cruisers’ Net’s “AICW Problem Stretches” Listing For Northern Alligator River
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